The Mah Jongg Q&A Bulletin Board

---

These two Polish sets

>From: Dominik
>Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 2:16 AM
>Subject: Mahjong sets in Poland
>Hello,
>I wrote to you same time ago about tournament system. Now, I'm asking you to help in other kind of problem.
>I'm interested in Mahjong history in Poland. I read old newspapers, search films (yes, there was one film about mahjong in Poland. BTW do you know it: "Mah Jong. How to Play the Game", link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1024759/ ), interview people, take pictures of mahjong sets and try to collect them all :D I'm quite good on my research. Mahjong comes to Poland in 1920' (the earliest writtings - 22.11.1924 - 85 anniversary). I've got many resources, picures and so on.
>Question is about mahjong sets. I saw 2 old sets in Poland. One is original Chinese (I wrote about it below first question), the other is copy of some set. Here is my question: I don't know from what kind of set it was copied? It is similar to this one: http://www.mahjongmuseum.com/mj127.htm
>Why I think that it is copy?
>- poor quantity
>- dimension of tiles is different
>- there are polish writtings on it
>- there are made of wood (poor quantity, tiles are different)
>Tiles were in box (postal box) with writtings in German: "Gift, weight netto 1,8 kg, brutto 1,9 kg". The man who is owner of this set told me that this kind of box have been sending to Poland (not only) in 1980' (writting by pen). So maybe it is gift from German? His grandfather during IIWW was in German. He could receive it from friends, which copied it from original set (the set in link was made in Germany, coincidence?). What about the character of handwritting? The writtings wasn't made by his father (maybe grandfather, he doesn't know) but I don't know if it was written (polish and german) by the same person (I'm not graphologist:).
>Data of set:
>netto (144): 1,8 kg
>brutto (144): 1,9 kg
>dimension: very different, about 4x2,4x1 cm (some clue from what it was copied?)
>Pictures: I send you pictures of it. I wrote my suggestion, thoughts, marked signs and so on.
>How much it could be worth? How old is the original (year, country, manufacture)?

>Second question.
>Mahjong set data:
>weight with box: 3,200 kg
>tiles: 144+4 blank, ivory? I don't think so (see pictures)
>tenbou (scores): many of them (picture of all kinds, weird:)
>Garden: I think that it is some sentence (the older sets have one). Unfortunately I don't speak chinese very well (only japanese). I'll show it to my chinese teacher and ask her to translate it.
>Manufacture: Van Foong Ziang Manuaf (plus chinese characters). With this distinctive feature I think you could recognize this set.
>Picture: Some characteristic pictures + my marks
>How much it could be worth? How old is the original (year, country, manufacture)?
>Regards,
>Dominik Kolenda
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Czy już jesteś w Yahoo!?
>Masz dosyć spamu? Poczta Yahoo! dysponuje najlepszą ochroną przed spamem
>http://pl.mail..yahoo.com

Hello Dominik,
You sent me pictures of, and questions about, TWO sets in one email. And you did not give me the information requested in FAQ 7h. But I'll do what I can. You wrote:

How much it could be worth?
Maybe two dollars. It's not attractive, it doesn't appear to be in good condition, I don't know anything about the container or anything except the tiles, and I don't imagine many collectors would be interested in it. Of course, I could be wrong. Somebody might give you ten dollars for it, if they thought its homemade look was charming or if they suspected it had an interesting history. And if they had more information from you than I do. I looked up "netto" and "brutto" on iGoogle and found out that they mean "net" and "gross." I don't even know what you mean by "net weight" versus "gross weight."

How old is the original (year, country, manufacture)?
I don't think it matters what "original" set was used as the model for someone to hand-craft this one. I'm sorry if you do think it matters, because I can't help you beyond to guess that the original was probably a 1920's or 1930's set.

Now as for the #2 set:

How much it could be worth?
Maybe around $100, give or take. The scoring sticks are a real mess (a hodgepodge of numerous mismatched sticks), the dice are missing, there are no wind indicators and no paper manual. The case is interesting and the tiles look solid enough, even though they're made of low-quality bone. The flowers are nice, though. You didn't tell me about the condition.

How old is [it] (year, country, manufacture)?
My guess is 1930's.
- The leather case is not typical of the 1920's
- The 1940's were a time of war, but I suppose it could be late 1940's
- By the 1950's plastic was more commonly used, rather than bone and bamboo.

It was made in China (probably Shanghai, based on the writing on the case). I have not collected any information on manufacturing companies.

Finally, about your photo #7:

It's not a very useful photo. To see what your whole set looks like, I would have to print out the photo and cut up the tiles and rearrange them! (I would arrange them the way tiles are arranged in FAQs 7a and 11e.)
I'm happy to help you when I can, but I don't want to do more work than you do!
One thing I notice in this photo, though, is that your flower tiles are whiter than your other tiles. That makes me wonder why. Maybe those tiles are made from higher-quality bone (not unreasonable, since the manufacturer wanted those tiles to be pretty), or maybe those tiles were not used much in play? I can't tell from just a photo.

I am happy to answer any other questions you might have, if I can, but please limit your questions to one mah-jongg set per email. And I don't think any more photos of these two sets would change the answers I gave you above.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 30, 2009

Mystery tiles, part 4

>From: Michael Stanwick
>Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 2:40 PM
>Subject: Re: Museum-quality set on the bulletin board
>Hello Tom.
>Your poster also had some dominoes that came in a separate container. He mentioned that he had googled 'Chinese dominoes' and found from that search that he did "indeed have a complete set (other than possibly one missing tile)." I presume he was still referring to the dominoes?
>Although Chinese dominoes are not my forte, I have taken an interest in one game - wa hua ('Digging Up Flowers'). My interest began when I noticed that two collectors of the earliest ma que (early precursor mahjongg) tile sets I have seen, also collected a bone and bamboo tile set for the game wa hua (for a complete set see Andrew Lo's chapter in 'Asian Games; the art of contest' by Mackenzie and Finkel).
>I think the group of dominoes that your poster has acquired, are from a much larger wa hua tile set, consisting of 132 tiles in total.
>The tile set for this game consists of two groups of tiles - wu hua pai ('cards with no flowers') and hua pai ('cards with flowers') - plus six blanks.
>His small number of domino tiles are, IMO, from the former group of wu hua pai.
>The seven blank tiles need to be inspected for their dovetail joints. Their shape and size will usually determine to which tile set (wa hua or mahjongg) they belong.
>Cheers
>Michael

Switching a concealed hand to exposed... part 3

>From: kathie
>Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 1:36 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Thanks so much Mr. Sloper -- you are now the new guru to a bunch of retired teachers who are now completely addicted to this crazy game.
>So long bridge ! Now instead of saying "Goren says...." It's now "Sloper, the tile guru, says...."
>Kathie in Ohio.

How should our hot wall rule work?

>From: Redcar50
>Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 12:58 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>I have perused the FAQ section and still have a question, albeit not one that is within the American rules. We like to play the "hot wall" where the person who discards a tile that completes a Mah-Jongg hand is penalized by having to pay for everyone. However, we aren't sure how many tiles should be accounted for before this person is penalized. We have been using a rule that if you can account for 3 tiles, either in your hand, exposed on a rack and including the one you discard, then you don't have to pay for everyone. And flowers are always hot in the hot wall. However, if you only have to account for 3 tiles (including the one you discard), that means you could easily be discarding a tile to complete a pair. It seems this "rule" should be that you may only get off paying the penalty for everyone if you can account for 4 tiles. How is this rule usually done, and do you have an opinion? Thanks for your help. Patty

Hi Patty, you wrote:

I have perused the FAQ section and still have a question
Then I assume that during your perusal you did not read FAQ 19Y and FAQ 14.

We have been using a rule that if you can account for 3 tiles, either in your hand, exposed on a rack and including the one you discard, then you don't have to pay for everyone.
Yes, your table rule includes a "safe tile" clause.

However, if you only have to account for 3 tiles (including the one you discard), that means you could easily be discarding a tile to complete a pair.
In other words, NOT counting the one you discard, you only have to account for TWO. I agree with you that your group's safe tile clause has a fairly major loophole.

How is this rule usually done
Sorry, but I have not collected any statistics on unofficial table rules, and I do not intend to.

and do you have an opinion?
My opinion is clearly stated in FAQ 19Y and FAQ 14.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 28, 2009

Switching a concealed hand to exposed... part 2

>From: kathie
>Sent: Wed, November 25, 2009 6:09:56 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Thanks for your very clear reply to my question re: changing from concealed to exposed hand (pg 15) in "Mah Jongg Made Easy" -- Don't buy a new one Mr. Sloper -- The one I referenced I now see was published in 1984 !!!
>Kathie

Hi Kathie,
Thanks for getting back to me on that. I just checked my library again. I actually have 3 copies of Mah Jongg Made Easy:

The red-cover one is the older one. I keep it in my mah jongg library as a reference in case I need to look up older rules.

The violet-cover one is the newer one. I have two copies of that one -- one as a "clean" copy and one as a pencil markup; I add newer rulings to the markup copy when they're announced in the January bulletins.

Just now, when you told me your book is dated 1984, I checked all 3 of my copies.

They are ALL dated 1984. The copyright page of these books does not contain ANY information as to edition # or revision # or anything of the sort.

Even worse -- when I turned to page 15 of my clean copy, I found the wording you quoted me! That means there is reason to doubt whether my markup copy is based on the latest edition. So I do think I need to order the current book from the NMJL, and see which of the violet-cover editions is current. Then I may need to re-pencil it.

I'm grateful to you for (even if inadvertently) alerting me to the fact!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 25, 2009

What about when a tile goes "down" accidentally, part 2?

>From: "Koster140
>Sent: Wed, November 25, 2009 7:26:06 AM
>Subject: Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Thanks, I got it. Have a couple of girls that are being very hard on new players and said they could never let a joker touch the table on an exchange. I wanted written proof before telling them to ease up or the new girls will not continue to learn and enjoy the game.

You tell'em, Jan!
But you might need to send a self-addressed stamped envelope to the NMJL in NYC for really convincing proof. (Your girls will probably say "Tom WHO?" and look down their noses on any male-type person who thinks he can tell them anything about mah jongg.)
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 25, 2009

Mystery tiles, part 3

>From: Michael Stanwick
>Subject: re: Museum-quality set on the bulletin board
>Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:41 PM
>Subject: Re: Museum-quality set on my bulletin board
>Hello Tom. In your latest bulletin board reply you have duplicated one tile twice. It is in the 3rd column and appears as the 2nd and 4th tiles (the lotus leaf and seed pod/bud).
>The missing tile should be the silver ingot tile.
>These columns of tiles may sport symbolic iconography (see Eberhard) that, when combined, spell out some blessing or moral or saying. I do not have the time to work them all out.
>However, for the 1st column; the 4 animals may symbolise "may you have Good Fortune (bat), Longevity (crane), Joy/Happiness (singing oriole?) and Riches (deer)."
>For the 2nd column; we have the "4 Callings of Mankind" (again, see Eberhard) - the Fisherman, the Scholar, the Farmer and the Woodcutter.
>These are sometimes found in the export sets found in the USA and the UK.
>Are there four blank tiles to complete the Honours triad?
>Oh. I forgot to mention..did you spot the anti-clockwise swastika on one of the tiles? The clockwise variant is also used of course. Both can be used to represent ten thousand, symbolising infinity.
>Cheers
>Michael

Thanks again, Michael.
- I fixed the error in the image below, thanks for pointing it out. Curiously, I'd noticed that the same Chinese character was used twice, but I hadn't noticed that the same tile image was used twice.
- That bottom tile in the 3rd column is a silver ingot?? Who'd a' thunk it.
- And yes, if Peter wants to know more about his flower tiles and their symbolism, he could check the Eberhard book (FAQs 3 & 7e).
- Four blanks? I don't know. Hopefully, Peter will come back and tell us about the complete contents of his set. I want to see the whole set, myself.
- The swastika -- after some searching, I did spot it, thanks. On the pouch the bow is protruding from. I've photographed many swastikas, usually in Buddhist settings, in China and South Korea.
Cheers! May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 24, 2009

Switching a concealed hand to exposed... and vice versa?

>From: kathie
>Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:50 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>My playing friends dispute the following, which I read to mean that a player can start out exposing, and after picking an appropriate tile can convert to concealed:
>The "official Publication of the National Mah Jongg League, Inc" in its "mah Jongg made easy" reads "Your choice of a concealed or exposed hand changes as the game continues according to the tiles you may pick. Therefore a concealed hand at any time may be switched to an exposed hand." (pg 15)
>Is there any other way to read this than a player can switch by replacing racked tiles?
>Thanks (espeically if this is covered on the website) - We are new to the game.
>Kathie

Hi Kathie,
Your book differs from mine...

"Your choice of a concealed or exposed hand changes as the game continues according to the tiles you may pick. Therefore a concealed hand at any time may be switched to an exposed hand." (pg 15 of your book)

"A concealed hand may at any time be switched to an exposed hand as shown on the National Mah Jongg League's Official Standard Hands and Rules." (pg 15 of my book)

I assume the League released a new edition, and I'd better order it.

The rule is NOT saying that, once you've made an exposure, you can decide to just put it back on your rack and go for a Concealed hand. Absolutely NOT.

The rule is simply saying that whether your target hand will be this concealed hand over here, or that exposed hand over there, is switchable at your desire... up until the time you make an exposure.

While all the tiles are concealed on your rack, it's nobody's business which hand(s) you are making. If you were thinking to go for a concealed hand, but then tiles come into your hand that suggest you go another way -- that's fine. That's all they mean by "switching from a concealed hand to an exposed hand."
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 24, 2009

Hanafuda solitaire

>From: mark
>Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 1:32:24 AM
>Subject: hanafuda solitaire
>Hello,
>I've been trying to find hanafuda solitaire games. However, I inevitable get download game sites. Are there any books or do you no anywhere else I can get this information.
>Sincerely,
>March

Hi March,
Someone else wrote to me about hanafuda solitaire last month. Please scroll down and read the post entitled "Hanafuda Solitaire" From: "Trevor, Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 2:11 PM
Sounds to me like you are convinced that there is hanafuda solitaire software out there somewhere. If you know something that I don't, please share it.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 24, 2009

Mystery tiles, part 2

>From: Michael Stanwick
>Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 5:58:47 AM
>Subject: Museum-quality set on the bulletin board
>Hello Tom.
>Looking though the photos the poster provided, it is clear he has mixed up some of the flower tiles.
>He needs to put them in groups of four according the the colour of the Chinese character that appears on each of them.
>At 1st glance the set appears to be of the 'Duke, Marquis, Marshall, Premier' tile set as categorised by the Japanese MJ Museum book.
>It has the requisite number and type of tiles as that set and so, IMO, it belongs to that category.
>It is therefore the 2nd one I have seen.
>I think we will find that this set is pretty much identical to the MJM book set - with a few differences in the pictures on the flower tiles.
>I think we could say that this set has roots in the set type as described in the 'MJ, before and after MJ Part 2' article [in The Playing-Card, the journal of the International Playing Card Society]. That set type is the Mauger set. The posters set is therefore a type of Mauger set pattern at its core, but with four sets of Flowers/Seasons and hence might also fall into a type of 'flower MJ' tile set - as described in the 'Flowers and Kings' article [in The Playing-card].
>Interestingly, I have quite a few bakelite chinese sets with four sets of flowers tiles. These seem to date from the time the Japanese invaded China in the 30's.
>Cheers
>Michael

Great, thanks, Michael.
I have jigsawed the tiles together, turning them right-side-up and ordering them when I could.

Above, L to R: "Duke, Marquis, Marshal, Premier" - a set containing these is pictured in FAQ 11e, above left.
Note that the "Marshal" character here is different from the one in the Mahjong Museum's collection. It's 9 strokes, and maybe later I'll try to look it up on Zhongwen. Problem is, Zhongwen doesn't always include older archaic characters (and on older sets like this one, the writing can be archaic).

Above: "red dragon" (left) and "green dragon" (right). I put those in quotes because the Chinese do not call these tiles dragons (as one can see in FAQ 6, the Mahjong Rosetta Stone FAQ).
Note that the characters are (L to R): "leung" (pronounced "loong"), meaning Dragon, Emperor, an emblem for China -- and "feng" (pronounced "fung"), meaning Phoenix, Empress, Prosperity. The leung and feng dragon tiles were sometimes used in earlier sets, up through the 1920's.

Above: I've reorganized the flower tiles. Each vertical column is a set. Note that in some sets, I did not know the order. The third tile in the third column bears the Chinese character for "three" -- 三 -- so I placed it in the third position accordingly (assuming that's where it belongs). The first tile in the third column bears the Chinese character for "center" -- 中 -- the symbol of China. And also used as the "red dragon" in the majority of mahjong sets. It's possible that the third and fourth columns write out a saying when organized properly. Someone fluent in Chinese might be able to de-scramble them for us.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 24, 2009

Where to buy? (FAQ 7k)

From: "Seena
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 1:31 PM
Subject: American mah jongg set
> Do you know where I can buy a set in my area--Nassau County, NY?
> If not, can you recommend a company on the internet?
> Thanks for any advice you can give me.
> Seena

Hello Seena,
I have already provided you with all the information I have about where to buy mah-jongg sets. It's Frequently Asked Question #7k. Please scroll up and look for the blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ). Find the link to FAQ #7k and click it. You can also look in FAQ 4a and the Sets For Sale Bulletin Board. The site links are all above left.
May the tiles be with you. Literally!
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 23, 2009

What about when a tile goes "down" accidentally?

>From: "Koster140
>Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 6:28:49 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Maybe I didn't ask the second part of my question correctly. If I am handing a 5 crack to a person for her joker and she drops or places that joker on the table before I get it, does that mean it is dead for me. Looks like some accidental cheating could happen with this rule.
>Jan

Hi Jan,
Wow, that's a great question!
DROPPING a tile is a harmless accident and certainly doesn't behoove a player's turn to end. No reasonable/nice person would say otherwise. The official rules do not discuss minor slippery finger accidents; common sense and good manners are supposed to kick in.
Also. YOU dropping a tile during my turn couldn't possibly end MY turn.
Most people would not see this as an opportunity for cheating, either intentional or otherwise. Most people would just think, "oopsie, butterfingers!" I suppose there is an opportunity for cheating there, but if players are keeping their eyes open like I always do, the likelihood of getting caught cheating is very great.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 23, 2009

Mystery tiles

>From: Peter
>Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 3:00:52 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>I have recently started playing Mah-Jongg and have been lucky enough to
>acquire a nicely carved set that I think is probably quite old and made of
>bone and bamboo. There are no Roman or Arabic numbers on the character
>tiles which are engraved in what I think is the standard Chinese style.
>These don't give me any problem. However I am at a loss as to the meaning
>of some of the other tiles. I looked on the internet to try to identify
>them and was lucky enough to come across your very helpful site. However I
>couldn't find answers even there, so I wonder if you could help.
>The set comprises 144 tiles so, leaving aside the 108 characters, circles
>and bamboo tiles, I am left with 36 to identify. I am attaching three
>photos of these. You will see that Photo A shows 16 tiles in 4 sets of 4.
>I presume that these are the wind tiles but have no idea which is which.
>Could you help?
>
>Photo B shows my guess at the dragon tiles. Is this right - with the white
>dragons (all in different styles) at the top? I am lost as to whether the
>tiles with the green frame and red writing in the middle row is a green
>dragon or a red one - and then vice versa with the bottom row.
>
>Finally Photo C shows what I imagine are the flowers and seasons tiles,
>(though the top row look like animals to me!), probably with the
>flowers/animals at the top and the seasons below (perhaps fishing,
>reading??, hoeing and harvest). Is this right?
>
>I assume the set is Chinese and I'm delighted with it and can't wait to play
>using it. I only hope that I haven't acquired something relating to a
>different but similar game! Any help you can give in identifying the tiles
>would be much appreciated - and any assistance with descriptions of the
>flowers/animals and seasons tiles (and what I have guessed at as the white
>dragon tiles) would be fantastic.
>With best regards
>Peter
>

>From: Peter
>Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 4:07:03 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q + A
>I'm sorry to trouble you again so soon after my email of a hour ago - and
>please bear with me, this email is about mah jong despite starting off about
>dominoes!
>
>When I first got my set, I found that in the box there was a separate
>container with some dominoes. The domino set was unlike any other I have
>seen and had far fewer tiles and I just presumed it was an incomplete set.
>However having written to you earlier today, I thought that I would have
>another look and I also googled 'Chinese dominoes'. I found from that
>search that I did indeed have a complete set (other than possibly one
>missing tile). Photo D shows what was included in the domino container.
>
>All the photo D tiles are identical in size to the mah jong tiles. You will
>see that I have placed the domino tiles in the first rows but this leaves 11
>extra tiles in the last two rows. The seven tiles in the bottom row are
>blanks which I assume are to be used if any of the regular tiles get lost
>(though I suppose that four could be white dragons) but I am (again!)
>totally confused as to what the four engraved tiles are in the row
>immediately above them. They are shown in more detail in Photo E.
>
>It is by no means impossible that these four are mah jong tiles and should
>have been in the mah jong tile containers and included in one of the photos
>in my first email replacing four which did appear there. You will
>appreciate that the more I look into this the more confused I get. Any
>light you can shed would be hugely appreciated.
>Best wishes
>Peter

Hi Peter,
Oh my God, you have a museum piece here. Actually, a couple of them. The dominoes don't belong mixed in with the mahjong tiles. You wrote:

I am at a loss as to the meaning
>of some of the other tiles.
As I begin this reply, I have not yet read both your emails thoroughly. I noted as I scanned quickly that you are confused as to your white dragon tiles. So the first thing I have to do is urge you to read FAQ 7e, my "mystery tiles" FAQ. I may not be able to help you "read" your tiles, since I can't read Chinese myself, but I can point you to Zhongwen.com, where you can try to look up some. And maybe later (busy day ahead of me, including a 3-hour university course I'm teaching, followed by a 4-hour game of Japanese mahjong) I can try to look up your wind tiles in my Mahjong Museum book. BTW, many of your tiles are pictured upside-down!

Photo A shows 16 tiles in 4 sets of 4.
>I presume that these are the wind tiles but have no idea which is which.
>Could you help?
Those four tiles do not represent winds -- instead, they fill the same place in the set as wind tiles do. The main thing is to know which one would come first, which second, which third, and which last. They probably represent ranks in Chinese military, but I'll have to look them up in the Mahjong Museum book when I have time.

Photo B shows my guess at the dragon tiles. Is this right - with the white
>dragons (all in different styles) at the top?
I don't think so. But I'd need to see the entire set, laid out in the "standard" layout as I have used in FAQ 7a and in FAQ 11. When you have four tiles all with different looks, they might be flowers or they might be jokers. Never saw a set of four white dragons all with different looks.

I am lost as to whether the
>tiles with the green frame and red writing in the middle row is a green
>dragon or a red one - and then vice versa with the bottom row.
The CHARACTER bears the color of the dragon. Not the frame. These particular dragons are identified in FAQ 7e -- I guess you haven't seen that FAQ.

Photo C shows what I imagine are the flowers and seasons tiles,
Now I'm positive you haven't seen FAQ 7e yet. Please read it.

I assume the set is Chinese and I'm delighted with it and can't wait to play
>using it.
Of course it's Chinese. And you SHOULD be delighted with it. Playing with it, though... you'll have to decide how to use the wind tiles (and because of its extreme rarity and value, you MUST NOT mark the tiles in any way), for instance. And this set can't be used to play American mah-jongg, of course, IF the total is 144 as you said (American mah-jongg needs 152 tiles).

The seven tiles in the bottom row are
>blanks which I assume are to be used if any of the regular tiles get lost
>(though I suppose that four could be white dragons)
You really need to read FAQ 7e.

I am (again!)
>totally confused as to what the four engraved tiles are in the row
>immediately above them. They are shown in more detail in Photo E.
Those are mah-jongg flower tiles. I think your set has 152 tiles plus 3 extra blanks.

Any
>light you can shed would be hugely appreciated.
Sure, just ask specific questions (see FAQ 7p).

By the way, your set is so special that I am going to have to notify the mah-jongg scholars about it. They're sure to want to see a photo of the entire set, laid out in the standard way as per FAQs 7a and 11.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 23, 2009

When is a tile "down," and what does it mean when a tile is "down"?

>From: Koster140
>Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 4:29 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My Mah-Jongg question or comment is:
>If a person miscalls a tile and it touches the table, can they then correct the call and use that same tile to exchange for a joker from someone's exposed hand.
>Also, is it just a table rule that a joker cannot touch the table when being exchanged for a tile.
>Thank you,
>Jan

Hi Jan,
Both the questions you asked depend on one answer: the answer to the question, "when is a tile 'down,' and what does it mean when a tile is 'down'?"

When is a tile "down" (and what does "down" mean) is one of the first and most basic rules that a mah-jongg player has to understand. That's why it's the first 2 questions answered in Frequently Asked Question #19 (the FAQ about American (NMJL) mah-jongg).

Please scroll up and find the links to the FAQs, above left (they're indicated by a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ). Find the link to FAQ #19 (it's indicated by a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this ) and click it. Bookmark the page for your future reference. Please always check the FAQs first, before asking a question.

After you read FAQs 19A & 19B, you ought to know the answer to both the questions you asked. "Down is dead." And there is never an exception to the "down" rule, under the official rules.

But some "friendly" groups like to bend the official rules -- read FAQ 14.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
11/22/2009

I have this rare mah jong set that you are refering to.

>From: terry
>Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:26 AM
>Subject: Rare mah jong game
>Dear sir,
>I have this rare mah jong set that you are refering to.Mine is Ivory and looks like your pictures on this site http://www.sloperama.com/majexchange/id.html Can you tell me more about this set? How much is it worth? are you interrested in it? Where can I sell it, to get the most out of it? Thanks for your fast reply.Terry

Can you tell me more about this set?
Yes, but only if you ask me specific questions that you want answered. Read FAQ 7p.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 21, 2009

Any suggestions?

>From: Marlene
>Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 7:31:31 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Player 1 has three exposures showing (playing 1,2,3,4,5) the 2 bams. 3 bams, and the 4 bams are showing. Player 1 throws a 1 dot, but calls it a 1 bam---no one notices the mistake. The next player thinking that she has broken her hand, throws a 1 bam- player 1 declares Mah.--it was not done on purpose--games stopped and others demand that player 2 pays for the table--
>Any suggestions-I said that it was an honest mistake and game should end, with out anyone paying.

Hi Marlene,
This is a new variation on Frequently Asked Question #19AY, "A discard was misnamed, causing a problem. What now?"

Go ahead and read FAQ 19AY (click above left), then come back here. I'll wait...

[Whistling "Poker Face"]

Okay, then. Now you have a new question. Because the "misnamer" and "the player who wanted the tile for mah-jongg" are the same person, and that's naturally confusing. Well, when the person who owes somebody money, and the person who is owed money, happen to be one and the same person, well... she could pay herself (or she could skip that silliness), and the tiles are thrown in. You also asked:

Any suggestions-
I suggest that everybody should always L⊙⊙K at, not just listen to, every discard. It's especially mindboggling that when P1 said she was discarding 1B, that everybody just assumed she was giving up on her hand, without even looking! A comedy of errors.

I further suggest that when everyone at the table blunders, one person should not be singled out for a penalty. See FAQ 9. Nobody noticed that P1 had said she was discarding a key tile OR that she had misnamed the discard.

I further suggest that the official rules be used, not table rules like "paying for the table." Some table rules just promote disharmony. See FAQs 9, 14, & 19Y.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 20, 2009

Is this the rule? My student encountered this tournament rule. (part 2)

>From: "Jujubille
>Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 6:15:03 AM
>Subject: About Houston tournament question
>Hi Tom, Haven't written in a while but use your book and FAQ's with students as I am still busy teaching seniors to play this challenging and fun game although now in Houston vs Dallas area. Is there not a distinction in this instance in 'picking' her tile which may go on the backside of her rack and she may say "Maj" and then display. And the 'calling' for the last discarded tile requiring her to leave the tile on the top of her rack and saying"Maj" and bringing her tiles to the top to display her Mah Jongg? Since one of my students was involved in the situation a clarification if appropriate would be good. The rule was announced at the tourney prior to play. Also, keep up the good work,Tom, your expertise is a great asset to those of us who teach the game. Judy

Hi Judy,
Another attendee of that Houston tournament, named Randee, also asked about this, and I answered her, 3 days ago. You can scroll down and look for "Is this the rule? I encountered this tournament rule." From: Randee, Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009
And read FAQs 19 K & 21 and look in my book on p. 54 (rule 66b).
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 20, 2009

If I'm playing a concealed hand...

>From: LARRY
>Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 1:55:51 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>If you are playing a concealed hand, can you call for the final tile to Maj jongg?

Hi Larry,
Welcome to my website. Please scroll up and find the links to the Frequently Asked Questions (look for the blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ). Find the link to FAQ #19 (it's marked with a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this ) and click it.

After you've landed at the FAQ 19 page, please bookmark it so you can easily return to it anytime you have a mah-jongg question. Answers to all of the most frequently-asked questions about American (NMJL) mah-jongg are found in FAQ 19. Always check the FAQs first before asking a question.

In the case of the question you have asked, read FAQ 19BD.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 19, 2009

Can Nine Gates be combined with Fully Concealed if self-picked?

>From: Станислав
>Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 1:47:55 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Hi Tom, my name is Stanislav, I’m from Russia .
>On our forum mahjong.ru appear such complex case in MCR.
>You try to complete 9 gates on bamboos. And you drawn last tile in the wall and that tile (incredible luck, yeah?) is winning tile for you. So, you achieved “9 gates”. Also you get “last tile in the wall” which is 8 pts . So, main question: can be fan “completely closed hand” which is 4 pts added to total score? I think – no, because 9 gates can be only closed hand or completely closed hand. In you win 9 gates on last tile in wall it is ALWAYS mean your hand is completely closed. But you achieved 8 pts for “last tile” and, in context of 9gates-hand, fan “completely closed hand” CAN’T be applied.
>So, how you think? How will be right?
>Stanislav

Hello Станислав, you asked:

you achieved “9 gates”. ... can be fan “completely closed hand” which is 4 pts added to total score? I think – no
Sorry, товарищ, but you're wrong. Look in the official rulebook on page 34. Look in my book on page 177. The rule specifically states that Nine Gates can be combined with Fully Concealed, if the player self-picks the final tile.

That thing you added, about the picked tile being the last tile of the wall, has no bearing on the main question you asked.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 19, 2009

Would you please estimate the value of my mah jongg set?

>From: Lauren
>Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 8:34:32 AM
>Subject: Please Value My Mah Jongg Set
>Greetings,
>Would you please estimate the value of my mah jongg set? The set belonged to my grandmother but I don't know much about its provenance. There are no paper materials included with the set and no markings on the case. I've tried to answer the questions listed on your website as completely as possible but please let me know if I can provide additional information. Additionally, I understand that you may post this email and the attached photos on your website.
>Many thanks.
>Lauren
>[PHONE # DELETED]
>Contents of Set
>The set is in very good condition. None of the tiles are chipped or stained but a couple of the counting sticks have rough edges. The set belonged to my grandmother. I don’t know when she acquired it.
>There are 152 bone and bamboo tiles in the set that measure 1 ?” h by ¾” w by 1/2” d. The bone portion measures ?” and the bamboo portion measures ?”.
>The tiles include
>36 Craks (the older kind)
>36 Dots or Circles
>36 Bams
>16 Winds
>12 Dragons
>8 Flowers
>8 Blanks
>There are no jokers included with this set.
>There are 120 sticks in the set, including
>36 sticks with single red dots
>36 sticks with two sets of 10 black dots
>8 sticks with 2 sets of 5 red dots
>39 sticks with 2 sets of two dots
>1 stick with two sets of 1 red dot and three black dots
>Also included are
>4 wind discs and a cylindrical container
>Four tiny dice in a wooden box with a sliding top. Box measures 1 ½” by ?”. Dice measure ¼” on a side.
>Container
>The set is housed in a rosewood box with a sliding front and five drawers. The box measures 9 ?” w by 6 ?” h by 5 ?”d.
>The front sliding panel has a horizontal crack which measures ?” inch across. The wood is in good condition with no stains or scratches. The brass doodads are all there and are in good condition.

Hi Lauren,
Good job providing the information I need. One problem, though -- your set does not have 152 tiles. You counted blanks twice. You have either:
12 Dragons (red, green, white)
+ 4 Blanks
OR
8 Dragons (red, green)
+ 8 Blanks

What you have is 148 tiles. Not enough to play the modern American game. Someone who wants to use the set to play NMJL rules would have to obtain 4 extra tiles in order to have 8 tiles to sticker as jokers.

The set is missing one thing: its original rule booklet. It's pretty complete except for that, and what you noted:

>39 sticks with 2 sets of two dots
>1 stick with two sets of 1 red dot and three black dots

Looks to me like somebody put that solitary alien stick in there to make up for the one missing 2-pip stick.

It's a classic 1920's set, possibly a Babcock (definitely the sort of set Babcock sold a lot of). Given the set's condition and all, I estimate the set as being worth between $80 and $110, give or take.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 18, 2009

Rochester RULES!

>From: Sandi
>Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 10:55:27 AM
>Subject: Rochester Rules
>Tom,
>Several months ago, I was looking online for a vintage mah jongg set, and I came across your website. I am new to the game and found the site to be easy to read and navigate, and extremely helpful. But what I found more fascinating was that I recognized your name - Monroe High School [YEAR DELETED], right? Allow me to introduce myself - Sandi [NAME DELETED], also from that class.
>
>Of the girls I play with, three of us are from Rochester - all transplants to St. Petersburg, FL, we found each other down here. When we decided to learn to play mah jongg last January, we enlisted a fourth to be our teacher, Suzie, a true Florida cracker. As we began to absorb the rules and strategies of the game, we came up with some new rules of our own, dubbing them our "Rochester Rules." While Suzie is adament about playing the game the way it is meant to be played, always pointing to the back side of the card as the final authority, our upstate New York slant makes for quite a few excuses to laugh.
>
>Several of us have also subbed in another group, and it's interesting to see how different people actually do make up their own rules. Distraught by their unwillingness to "break the wall" during one afternoon of mah jongg, Peg (Marshall High School) went to a local bookstore and found your book. She doesn't hesitate to cite passages from the Rochester native to those who refuse to adhere to the official rules - giving a new meaning to "Rochester Rules." We will all have copies of that book soon.
>
>As for my vintage set, I found one on Craig's List from a lady in Bethesda MD. It was her grandmother's, early to mid-1960s, Royal Brand catalin, made by A & L Manufacturing Co. in Brooklyn. Everything was in perfect condition, including the case, which I found amazing. I can't believe she ever played with it. I paid only $100 for the set, then added new "helping hands" from the Mah Jongg Maven.
>Tom, thanks for guiding us as we learn this challenging game!
>Sandi

Sandi!! How spectacular to hear from you.
What a blast from the past!
I was in Rochester last July for my mom's birthday.
I loved your story about the different rules and everything. I'm "chuffed" as the Brits say, to hear that my book is helping your group.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 17, 2009

Is this the rule? I encountered this tournament rule.

>From: Randee
>Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 12:05:12 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: Are you not allowed to rack your winning tile first and display your hand. The tournament I recently went to in Houston made up a new rule stating NO winning Mah Jongg tiles can be racked first and displayed with the hand,.

Hello Randee,
Please scroll up and find the links to the Frequently Asked Questions (look for the blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ). Find the link to FAQ #19 (it's marked with a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this ) and click it.

After you've landed at the FAQ 19 page, please bookmark it so you can easily return to it anytime you have a mah-jongg question. Answers to all of the most frequently-asked questions about American (NMJL) mah-jongg are found in FAQ 19. Always check the FAQs first before asking a question.

In the case of the question you have asked, read FAQ 19K. If the wording of the answer is unclear, please let me know what information is missing, so that I can improve the wording of the answer for future askers of this question.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 17, 2009

Can somebody make mah-jongg on the very last discard?

>From: Linda
>Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 4:56:09 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>A player picks up the last tile in the game and discards. Is the game over or can another player call the tile for Mah-Jongg?
>Thank you

Hi Linda,
Before I answer, let me say that my answer is based on official rules -- not table rules. You will find people who use "cold wall" or "hot wall" or "lukewarm wall" rules that govern the handling of the last few tiles in the wall.
Under the official rules, any discard is fair game. Under the official rules, all discards are fair game.
If there was an official rule against taking the last discard, then to discard that last tile would be useless, and in order for the rule to be sensible, the rule would have to forbid discarding it in the first place! The rules do not forbid discarding the last tile, so the last tile is as callable as any other.
Actually, in Japanese mah-jongg, to declare mah-jongg on the last discard is very valuable - it doubles the score!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 17, 2009

How much should I ask for this set on eBay?

>From: LARodefeld
>Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:32 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Hello. After discovering your website, I’d like to request an evaluation of a Mah-Jongg set that we’ve got. I’ve completed your Checklist to the best of my ability with the information I’ve got about the set. I’ve taken several photos and have cropped/re-sized them per your direction. I hope you have no difficulties opening them.
>Mah Jongg Set Information
>Contents
>148 Tiles: 136 Basic Tiles, 8 Flower Tiles, 4 (additional) Blank Tiles (there are no Tiles labeled as “Jokers”)
>All Tiles are in good condition; no visible breaks, cracks or un-due wear.
>128 Sticks: 9 with 5 dots, 41 with 10 dots, 41 with 2 dots, 37 with one dot
>Sticks are in good condition; there are just a couple where the paint is either chipped or worn from the dots.
>4 Wind Indicator Discs and Cup
>Discs are in fair to good condition; colors show wear on these.
>2 Dice and Wood Box
>Dice and Box are in good condition.
>All Tiles and other pieces are both carved or etched and painted (the dice too).
>Container
>The wooden Box would most likely be considered in fair condition. There is one piece of ‘molding’ missing from the back, which affects two of the brass corner trim pieces (were attached to this ‘molding’). The rest of the brass trim seems to be in good condition. The door or cover is carved, not just painted. The Box has five drawers to hold the tiles and other pieces. There is (what appears to be) a Chinese character on the bottom of each drawer, and on the inside bottom of the box. There also seems to be three Chinese characters on the outside bottom of the box.
>Materials
>Judging from information I’ve read on your site and others, I believe the set (at lease the Tiles and Sticks) to be made of Bone and Bamboo (the material of the other pieces is unknown).
>The Tile dimensions are 1 ¼ inch by 7/8 inch. The thickness of the Bone on the Tiles is 6/32 inch (the thickness of the Bamboo on each Tile is 13/32 inch).
> “History”
>All I know about this set is that it has been in my Parents’ possession since the early 1960’s (given to them by an Uncle). I unfortunately have no previous history about the set.
>Thank you for your time. Any information you can provide will be very welcome.
>Sincerely;
>Lisa at: [EMAIL ADDRESS DELETED]

I believe you can expect to get more than the usual value of a 1920's set for this one, despite the flaws. I think you can expect to fetch two to four hundred dollars, give or take. Of course, as always, it depends on who's bidding on eBay when you put the set up for sale, how badly they want it, what minimum price you set, and how well you write the sales pitch. (You aren't allowed to mention my name in your pitch, either.)
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 16, 2009

What is the significance of the statements on the back of the card about flowers?

>From: Carol
>Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 12:07:48 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: On the 2009 NJML card under the heading "Players should not throw in hands until mah jongg is verified," there are 3 statements regarding "flowers." What is the significance of these statements? For example, "Player is permitted to discard a Flower at any time during the game and call it "Flower"." Duh...that seems obvious. So do the other statements so why print them? One player thought the statements about claiming a discarded flower might indicate that you could claim any flower that had previously been discarded which seems to go against standard NJML rules. Thanks for answering.

Hi Carol
Those are "legacy statements." They go way way back into the history of the NMJL game and the way it used to be played a long time ago. Decades ago, flowers were wild. Then jokers came along and flowers were tamed. I agree with you that those statements do not need to be kept on the card any more. If they confuse you, just don't read them. (^_^)
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 16, 2009

What does "pung 8s only" mean, part 3

>From: "jane
>Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 9:08:56 AM
>Subject:
>You asked why I asked if pung could be used as a verb. I am fairly new to American Mah Jongg, and no one in that game had ever heard of such usage, so I was checking it out with an authority. Second question: Have you a connection with Christian Brothers University? I do have a connection, and somewhere in the netherworld of my brain, I thought I had heard that you had some connection. End of questions, you don't have to ask me any more. Thank you very much for your information. Jane

Hi Jane, you wrote:

I am fairly new to American Mah Jongg, and no one in that game had ever heard of such usage [of the verb "pung"]
Yes, it is rare to hear the verb in connection with American mah-jongg, except in my weekly column (because I write about multiple variants, not only American). That's why I asked. I definitely understand why now, since you have also played other forms of the game.

Do you have a connection to Christian Brothers University in Memphis, TN? ... I thought I had heard that you had some connection.
No. You probably didn't hear that.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 16, 2009

What does "pung 8s only" mean, part 2

>From: "jane
>Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 7:55:43 AM
>Subject: [ No Subject ]
>You asked where I had heard pung used as a verb: when playing Wright-Patterson Mah Jongg and also in some games of Chinese Mah Jongg. Next question: Do you have a connection to Christian Brothers University in Memphis, TN? Thanks, Jane

Hi Jane, you wrote:

where I had heard pung used as a verb: when playing Wright-Patterson Mah Jongg and also in some games of Chinese Mah Jongg.
Since you've heard the term used as a verb multiple times, I have to wonder why you asked if it's used as a verb. (But note that it is rare to hear the verb in connection with American mah-jongg, except in my weekly column.)

Do you have a connection to Christian Brothers University in Memphis, TN?
No. Why do you ask?

And why is it that every question you ask makes me ask another question in return? (^_^)
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 16, 2009

What does "pung 8s only" mean when there are non-8 pungs?

>From: "jane
>Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 10:41:04 PM
>Subject: [ No Subject ]
>Hello, I have a question about the seventh hand under 2468 on the 2009 card: 222 44 666 888 888 (any 3 suits, Pung 8s only). The numbers 2, 4, and 6 are green; the first set of 8s are red; and the last set of 8s are blue. I understand that all three suits must be used, but what does "pung 8s only" mean? The 2s and 6s are also pungs. It is a concealed hand. Second part of question: Is pung both a noun describing three of a kind and also a verb describing the action of making a pung? Thank you, Jane

Hi Jane, you asked:

what does "pung 8s only" mean? The 2s and 6s are also pungs.
That part of the parenthetical is referring to the non-green pungs. See what I wrote in FAQ 19AO -- the League wants to be sure nobody thinks they can make...
222 44 666 222 222
222 44 666 444 444
222 44 666 666 666
Since hands of this particular type sometimes have that flexibility.

Is pung both a noun describing three of a kind and also a verb describing the action of making a pung?
Yes. Where did you hear it used as a verb?

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 16, 2009

Need help ID'ing set's, part 6

>From: "Metiernew1
>Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 11:42:03 PM
>Subject: Thanks for advice on Both
>Hay Tom,
>Thanks a bunch for your advice on both set's. Somehow I missed your reply on my Mom's set, but found it now. As I mentioned I just found both set's and didn't want to tamper with anything until I got sound advice. I know with anything vintage you do not disturb or change anything thus devaluating it, so left everything as is I guess with Mah Jongg though it is best to clean them up as best as possible. I thought I had included a pix of the back of the enrobed tiles, may not have downloaded I will send it again.
>
>As for the racks, your site did say some older set's did not come with the disk holders so I did not think that would be a negative as it would appear to be original. Have no idea if the wind stickers came with set or my Mom added them at some point, but by the size it looks as if it did. Like I said my Mom was an avid player and this set did get used a min of once a week and in summers 7 days a week at her country club for many many years and later when she moved to Florida probably a couple times a week in the game room, so I'm sure over time she reglued and restickered things. But the paint is in remarkable fine condition for the amount of use, would think the bulk of the value is in the tiles themselves though, not so much the case or accessories as over time people replace those anyway.
>I appreciate your honest and fair evaluation and it is certainly helpful. Can't thank you enough for your time an patience.
>Sincerely,
>Lin

Hi Lin,
You're welcome. To reply to some things you said:

I guess with Mah Jongg though it is best to clean them up as best as possible.
I did not say that. I said that your #2 set should be cleaned up. I did not say to clean up all parts of the enrobed set. Just sticker removal, that's all I suggested as regards to the enrobed set.

pix of the back of the enrobed tiles
I've given you my opinion on your sets. Please don't send me anything more as regards to those 2 sets.

your site did say some older set's did not come with the disk holders so I did not think that would be a negative
I didn't say there was anything wrong with your holderless racks. I assume the set originally came with some kind of scoring chips, but I don't know. I was saying that the absence of the original scoring chips was a reducing factor in the value of that set.

Have no idea if the wind stickers came with set or my Mom added them at some point
I never saw such unattractive-looking labels on racks before. They look like the kind of stickers used to label a mailbox.

would think the bulk of the value is in the tiles themselves
And I said as much. As regards to the enrobed set. See, now we're talking about 2 different sets. I gave you distinctly different information about each set. You shouldn't try to draw generalized conclusions about both based on the different information I gave about each, individually.

not so much the case or accessories
Here we go again. Two different sets.

The enrobed set, as a unit, tiles and everything else, is a collectors' item. It's inherently more valuable if it includes all its original parts. Thus I recommended not messing with the case and the cardboard trays. But the stickers need to be removed, if you can manage it well. The great thing about your enrobed set is that it has enough tiles to also be useful for playing American mah-jongg.

Your #2 set is much more modern in origin. Its primary value is in its usefulness in playing. It's not particularly collectible. The case should be rescuable with some Brasso or whatever. Any missing parts should be replaced. Make the chips all a multiple of four in each color.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 14, 2009

Need help ID'ing set's, part 5

>From: Metiernew1
>Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 8:27 PM
>Subject: Re: 2nd set
>Ooooop! besides being confused seems I forgot how to count too, lol. Made the same math error on my mom's set, don no why I had 32 for each suit in mind not 36. Took for granted the chips, never used them so I didn't think they were important to count and racks were in pretty decent condition so assumed the same thing. But you know what happens when you assume anything, lol
>Chip count is:
>Blue -    25 + 1 Navy                  = 26
>Red  -      9 + 3 lighter to orange = 12
>White -   18
>green -    25
>Yellow -    9
>__________                              
>               52                              =  52
>                                           ________
>                                          Total    90    
>Racks are shiny some discoloration on brass but I can clean that up easy with Flitz. Case hardware is another story, Florida's a "b" on metal, lol  
>You didn't mention any Manufacturer or what the tiles are composed off? In your evaluation, is it that too many made similar so it's to difficult to figure out or not important?  
>I can't seem to get true colors with my camera unless I don't use flash than it's to dark. pic's are with and without.
>Thanks again for all your time and your quick response's, anxiously awaiting your evaluation on my mom's Enrobed set.

Hi Lin, you wrote:

You didn't mention any Manufacturer
I already told you yesterday. I don't know anything about manufacturers. Besides, I was under the impression that your question was "what is my set worth."

or what the tiles are composed off?
Everything I can tell you is in FAQ 7c. Make sure you also look at FAQ 7c3 (the "plastics" FAQ).

In your evaluation, is it that too many made similar
I'm sorry, I do not understand.

or not important?
Yes. Not important.

anxiously awaiting your evaluation on my mom's Enrobed set.
I did your mother's set first. You have to scroll down to read it.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
Friday the 13th, November, 2009

Need help ID'ing set's, part 4

>From: "Metiernew1
>Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 1:59:50 PM
>Subject: 2nd set
>This set was mine purchased between 1965-68 later I gave it to my Mom when I stopped playing. So unless my Mom traded the set for a newer one it has to date between that time period. I am not sure of the manufacturer, no papers or making on the case or what it is made of. I believe it to be Catalin, tiles are Ivory not white but in some pic's shows up whiter depending on the flash. There are 16 tiles (flowers, jokers & blanks) that were never used and color is a hair lighter but still a light beige color. Overall condition of the set is in excellent condition with no obvious signs of wear, paint is clean & bright, no chips or cracks, no eye notice scratches to tile, some slight rub off of the gold on used jokers only, paint is darker on the used flowers & seasons.
>Set is Black and Red w/Gold in the Flowers, Jokers and the eye of the dragon's
>Craks are of a modern design
>Bam would indicate it belonging to ES Lowe ?- Crain Black with Red head & feet
>but I noticed on your site an exact design of the flowers referred to as belonging to Cardinal Product's Co.?
>Tiles size is 1 3/8 x 7/8 x 1/2" thick
>Rack - 5 in different colors appear to be bakelite w/ tops measuring 1 3/8
>Case is imitation green alligator with green plastic(Bakelite?) handle, green felt lining on lid, Brown papered tile holders all in fair condition. Brass hinges and locks are rusted, some wear/tear on edges of case (think I did that bringing it back to NY)
>Set includes:
>Bams 4@ 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
>Dots 4@ 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
>Craks 4@ 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
>Winds 4 North
> 4 South
> 4 East
> 4 West
>Florwers 4 # 1 - w/ 2 red numbers, 2 black numbers
> 4 # 2 - w/2 " 2 "
> 4 # 3 - w/2 " 2 "
> 4 # 4 - w/2 " 2 "
> 4 Season # 1,2,3,4
>Jokers 10
>dragons 4-black
> 4-Red
> 4 Black/retangle
>Blanks 2
>------------------------------------
>Total 158
>Dice and Better I do not believe are originals and will enclose pix of both betters as I'm not sure which belonged to which set. Dice even photo'ed lighter than they are, do not appear to be plastic. There are a load of disks, color matched to the 5 racks, didn't count them but they all appear to be in good condition.
>Thanks so much Tom, I know this set is not as valuable as my Mom's. But older set's have more weight and a different feel to them than the newer plastics. If I do decide to sell it, it would help to know exactly what it is I'm selling and it's value.
>I know on my Mom's set it's what ever the market will bear.
>Or I just might keep both and hand them down to my grand children or I might take up playing again. Donna know right now.
>Lin

Hi Lin,
This set has 168 tiles, not 158 tiles. 136 basic tiles plus 20 flower/season tiles plus 10 joker tiles plus 2 blanks. 168.

The case rust detracts from the set's value. If you can use Brasso on the metal parts without staining the case covering material, that would probably help.

You didn't bother to count the scoring chips or show photos of what the racks look like by themselves. If the racks are reasonably shiny and not rusty, then that's good. If not, that's bad. The set has more value if there are no missing scoring chips. Nobody uses them, but their being incomplete detracts from the value nonetheless. Each color should exist in some multiple of four (see the Bits & Pieces FAQ).

If you can clean up the case and the racks and even out the number of chips, you should be able to get over $100 for this set.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
Friday the 13th, November 2009

Need help ID'ing set's, part 3

>From: "Metiernew1
>Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 11:00:10 AM
>Subject: set 1 or 2 Mom's
>Sorry Tom,
>Don't want to confuse you I'm confused enough for both of us,lol I think we both read to fast, lol. I thought 7 h was just if you wanted to summit it for sale, not to ask you questions about it or get an estimate of value. Didn't think you would do that. Sure I have a digital camera I'll send them as attachments rather than in the body of the email. I don't use a pix hosting site.
>This set belonged to my Mother, seem to remember her using it pre-1960 but can't say for sure.
>
>Tiles are Enrobed Burgandy & Orange/Butterscotch Bakelite and or a combinations with Catalin? Tiles are carved not stamped Their appears to be a grain on the backs of the butterscotch portion of the tiles, not sure if it's a glue residue or in the tiles itself, haven't tried to clean them yet but it appears on all the tiles
>No manuals or documentation's
>1. Set includes:
>Bams - 4@ 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 = 32
>Dots - 4@ 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 = 32
>craks - 4@ 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 = 32 Not sure of the era? see pix
>Winds - 4 North
> 4 East
> 4 South
> 4 West
>Flowers - 2@ 1
> 2@ 2
> 2@ 3
> 2@ 4
> 2@ 5
> 2w Stickers
>Dragons - 4 Red
> 4 Green
> 4 White/Retangled
>Jokers - 2 originals
>Blanks - 8 stickered
>____________________
>Total 144
>Condition: Very Good to Excellant, Paint is clear and bright, no wear to paint on almost all but 1 or 2 tiles but very minimal, minor use scratch on tiles that you need to angle on light to see.
>NO Chips or cracks, Some glue residue from my Mom taping them together which I will clean. In remarkable condition for the amount of use.
>Case is in fair condition, Travel type case, Brass locks & Brass Corners rusted, snap up lock, locks function, no cracks or frayed material on exterior of case, no peeling. Case is in a textured houndstooth pattern feels like a heavy cardboard. Black & white pattern with Black Plastic (Bakelite?) handle. Interior is heavy cardboard as well as is the tile holders.
>Better & Dice may or may not have been replaced or switched between the 2 set's
>1 Better which might be the original for this set is tan Bakelite markings of E, Chinese symbol than numbered 2-4
>2nd better found in case is a newer and may be from second set or purchased separately, made by Kwong Fat Cheung H.K. w/directionals
>dice - not original
>Craks I'm not sure about based on your pic's Large Numbers but detailed lettering
>Flowers are mixed 4 flowers 4 seansons possible more that are sticker over.
>Hope I have encluded enough detail, thanks Tom

>From: "Metiernew1
>Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 12:34:16 PM
>Subject: Forgot some details on enrobed set
>Enrobed set:
>Tiles size is 1 3/8 x 7/8 x 3/8 thick
>Racks top is 1 /3/8 deep
>Racks do not have disk/chip holders
>Additional close up pix of Bams, flowers, Dragons & case attached

Hi Metiernew,
Your set is undoubtedly quite valuable (due to its being enrobed), but it has flaws.
Firstly, though, some good news. 9x4=36, not 32. Your set has the 136 basic tiles, plus 12 flower tiles (2 of them badly stickered), plus 10 joker tiles (8 of them badly stickered). That's 158 tiles, not 144. Since today's NMJL players (the majority of people who'd be interested in your set) need 152 tiles, that makes this set useful as well as desirable.

The bad stickers reduce the value of the set. If you could remove the bad stickers, that would accomplish a couple of things. First, that would make the set look better. Second, it would reveal what's under the stickers. Third, it would give you (or a potential purchaser) the ability to put nicer newer joker stickers on it.

You mentioned some sort of grain on the backs of all the tiles. I have no idea what that is. You didn't send any photos of that. Could be a bad thing, I can't tell.

The case is just fair, you say. Well, I'd just leave that as is. I see from your photos that the inner trays are cardboard. Again: do nothing about that.

You didn't write anything about the racks. But your photos show that they have been badly stickered. If the stickers can be removed nicely, the racks would undoubtedly look better.

The dice look like later additions (probably not original). The set does not have any scoring chips or chip holders or manual. So basically what you have is a set of valuable tiles (only) and some mistreated racks in an old rusty case. It does not have as much value as it would if the case was in better condition and all original parts were included.

Still, though, because of the enrobed tiles, it ought to be worth several hundred dollars. How many exactly? I couldn't say. More than two, less than eight. That mysterious "grain" on the backs might bring that down, perhaps.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
Friday the 13th, November 2009

Can I kong a 200x or a NEWS?

>From: Gene and Phyllis
>Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 7:47:21 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: Under Wind-Dragons-is NEWS one word or four singles? Can one of the winds be picked for exposure before ready to declare Mah Jongg?

Hi Gene and Phyllis,
Please scroll up and find the links to the Frequently Asked Questions (look for the blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ). Find the link to FAQ #19 (it's marked with a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this ) and click it.

After you've landed at the FAQ 19 page, please bookmark it so you can easily return to it anytime you have a mah-jongg question. Answers to all of the most frequently-asked questions about American (NMJL) mah-jongg are found in FAQ 19. Always check the FAQs first before asking a question.

In the case of the question you have asked, read FAQ 19.E.1..
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 13, 2009

Need help ID'ing set's, part 2

>From: "Metiernew1
>Sent: Thu, November 12, 2009 8:32:16 AM
>Subject: Re: Need help ID'ing set's
>Thnaks for the raid reply Tom,
>However I did read all your FAQ pages before inquiring and that's why I wrote to you, obviously not every set is the same so your answers are more generic in nature. I do realize without seeing what it is I'm talking about makes it more difficult to understand what it is I'm referring too, but your site did not say I should/could include photo's, so I didn't. I also did say I've been surfing all the web sites including May's and have not been able to determine the specifics of either set, so hoped by my detailed descriptions of each set and why I was unable to determine the manufactures and or age's you could be of some assistance. Thanks, guess I'll keep surfing.
>Lin

Hello Lin,
Don't know how I missed the fact that you'd already visited Jim May's site before. I should not have mentioned his site since you'd already said you'd been there.

In FAQ 7h it clearly says that I can't estimate your set's value without specific information. If you had given me all the information requested in FAQ 7h, I would have known that you'd read the FAQ, and I would have been able to tell you your set's worth.

If you want to try again, you're welcome to do so. But please write separate emails (don't ask me two different sets' values in one email, since I confuse easily). And you'd need to find a way to send digital photos. One way is to use a film camera, and take the film to any photo shop. They all offer digital services nowadays.

Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 12, 2009

Need help ID'ing set's

>From: "Metiernew1
>Sent: Thu, November 12, 2009 6:52:44 AM
>Subject: Need help ID'ing set's
>Hi Tom,
>I am in a state of total confusion trying to pin down specifically which set's I own. I've read through your site and several others, but there seems to be so many variances and inconsistencies from 1 set to another I'm not able to find the information I'm looking for. Can you assist.
>
>1st recently I was going though my mom's things when I found her old set as well as mine that I had given her when I stopped playing some 30 years ago. Now I'm trying to determine the value of the sets so I can decide if their worth selling or keeping. All my inquires only seem to result in offer to buy so I know I'm not getting the answers to my questions. It would be helpful in determine there value if I knew exactly their age and manufacturer.
>
>OK, my mom's set I know is valuable is an Enrobed Burgandy & Butterscotch, Thought only Met made them now finding out several companies did as well. i.e. Royal and others. Your site stat's if it has 2 original jokers it's age is 1960-61, but I seem to remember my Mom playing with it before that. The tiles itself are not consistent to what I've seen on the Internet to any one manufacturer. Dragons & Winds & Jokers are not standard to one manufacturer or another. The backs of the tiles appear to have a grain which is also not consistent to Bakelite or Catelin. There are 4 burgandy racks but no disk holders (she might have removed them but no indications of it, just stickers w/N,S,E,W on them. There is no makings on the case itself which is in a Blk & Wht houndstooth pattern w/black handle.
>
>OK now for my set, I know this is a double question, hope you don't mind. My set was purchased between 1965-68 but based on the amount of jokers & flowers you stat on your site for age it would indicate later? 10 Jokers, 20 flowers, The sylize of the dragons shows as a design I have only found in set's from the 30's, The 1 Bam is that of a Crain indicating it should be an ES Lowe set? but it's Black & Red w/Red on the head and feet only. The set also is Black and Red with only Gold in the jokers & flowers. The tiles themselves are a very light Ivory, Not white not beige so I'm not sure of the composition if it modern plastic (don't think so) or Catalin (which I believe it to be) but all the Catalin's I've seen so far appear to have a deeper tint. The tiles themselves also have a good weight to them which would also indicate not of newer plastic. There are 5 Bakelite racks in a green imitation alligator case with a dark green handle matching one of the racks. It is possible my Mom switched the cases from one set to the other. although the enrobed case is slightly smaller, so I don't think so.
>
>Any help to my confusion would be greatly appreciate, I know there were so many manufacturers in the 50-60's that they may have borrowed the designs from each other thus making it more difficult to identify.
>Thanks,
>Lin C

Hello Lin, you wrote:

I am in a state of total confusion trying to pin down specifically which set's I own.
I don't know what you mean by "which sets." You own the sets that are in your house! (^_^)

I'm trying to determine the value of the sets
Please read FAQ 7h. Please scroll up and find the linis to the Frequently Asked Questions, above left (they're indicated by a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ). Please always check the FAQs first, before asking a question.

It would be helpful in determine there value if I knew exactly their age
Please read FAQ 7g.

and manufacturer.
I can't help you there. See Jim May's website and CHarli's website (FAQ 4a).

Your site stat's if it has 2 original jokers it's age is 1960-61, but I seem to remember my Mom playing with it before that.
You did a good job finding my F/J counts article. The NMJL card required 2 jokers in 1960-61. It's very likely that some sets were made with joker tiles before that date.

The tiles itself are not consistent to what I've seen on the Internet to any one manufacturer. Dragons & Winds & Jokers are not standard to one manufacturer or another. The backs of the tiles appear to have a grain which is also not consistent to Bakelite or Catelin. There are 4 burgandy racks but no disk holders (she might have removed them but no indications of it, just stickers w/N,S,E,W on them. There is no makings on the case itself which is in a Blk & Wht houndstooth pattern w/black handle.
That's nice. Surely you can't expect me to tell you anything about your set without photos. In addition to FAQs 7g & 7h, read FAQ 7p.

My set was purchased between 1965-68 but based on the amount of jokers & flowers you stat on your site for age it would indicate later? 10 Jokers, 20 flowers,
The F/J counts I give on my site tell you what the NMJL card required in the indicated years. I do not possess any information about the F/J counts used by particular manufacturers in particular years. See Jim and CHarli's websites.

The sylize of the dragons shows as a design I have only found in set's from the 30's, The 1 Bam is that of a Crain indicating it should be an ES Lowe set? but it's Black & Red w/Red on the head and feet only. The set also is Black and Red with only Gold in the jokers & flowers. The tiles themselves are a very light Ivory, Not white not beige so I'm not sure of the composition if it modern plastic (don't think so) or Catalin (which I believe it to be) but all the Catalin's I've seen so far appear to have a deeper tint. The tiles themselves also have a good weight to them which would also indicate not of newer plastic. There are 5 Bakelite racks in a green imitation alligator case with a dark green handle matching one of the racks. It is possible my Mom switched the cases from one set to the other. although the enrobed case is slightly smaller, so I don't think so.
That's nice, but surely you can't expect me to tell you anything about your set without photos.

I know there were so many manufacturers in the 50-60's that they may have borrowed the designs from each other thus making it more difficult to identify.
I can't help you with identifying manufacturers. Try Jim or CHarli.

Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 12, 2009

Could I have a large picture of the Singapore flower tiles?

>From: K. N. (otrex)
>Sent: Wed, November 11, 2009 8:27:08 PM
>Subject: Picture Request
>Greetings Mr Sloper,
>I apologize for asking such a mundane question of you (I did read your rules before asking this), but would you happen to have a large picture of the Singapore Special Flower Tiles (Man, Bag of Gold, Rooster etc)?
>Specifically the ones that you show in FAQ 7e would be perfect. It's just that some of them are quite small, and a person I want to show them to is not able to see them very well.
>Failing this, any large picture of those 8 Special Tiles would be immensely helpful, as when I try to expand the pictures on your website, the clarity is completely lost.
>Thanks very much for your time, and your excellent website.
>Regards,
>Kevin
>Get a great deal on Windows 7 and see how it works the way you want. Check out the offers on Windows 7now.

Hi Kevin, you wrote:

I did read your rules before asking this
I don't understand. Which rules do you think you're violating?

would you happen to have a large picture of the Singapore Special Flower Tiles (Man, Bag of Gold, Rooster etc)?
>Specifically the ones that you show in FAQ 7e
Do you mean this one?

It's just that some of them are quite small, and a person I want to show them to is not able to see them very well.
>Failing this, any large picture of those 8 Special Tiles would be immensely helpful
Okay, I'm not buying this "the person I want to show them to can't see so good" thing. If you are asking about the image above, that's an image I spent several hours of my valuable time creating. If you want a high-resolution image of Singapore animal flowers, I can't help but wondering why. Maybe you want to make stickers? If that's the deal, why not just buy the stickers from me? It's only $4 (I should probably charge more).

If that image isn't the one you're talking about, then the answer is "yes." I do have a higher-res picture of those. But "no." You can't have it. Legal reasons.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
11/11, 2009

Another 2-player variant, part 2

>From: Chris
>Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 6:54:28 AM
>Subject: Online Gaming
>Hello again,
>Regarding my last note about scoring in 1-on-1, a kong by either player is paid immediately with no house rake. Only the player who goes out scores fan, and every fan doubles the score, limited to 6 as stated on their rules page.
>Chris

the number r complicated

>From: Vicki
>Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 7:50:57 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: is there a site I can see the way of the suit in all kind of hand?
>Like I understand that
>Nn eee fff www ss
>North north east .....
>But the number r complicated and I would like to see how it set.
>I wish u can get my question
>Thank you

Hi Vicky,
I think you'll find what you're looking for in the weekly strategy column. On the weeks that I write about American mah-jongg, I often give examples of how the suit tiles can be strategized. You can get to the strategy column by clicking the purple banner atop this page. Hope you find it helpful!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 2, 2009

Who pays double in this case?

>From: "Bindy315
>Sent: Sat, November 7, 2009 8:09:45 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: I have read the answer below, but what is the ruling when the player has called a discard, and then is able to replace a joker from the same discarder's hand and that results in mah jong; who pays double ?
>
>>Q: Who pays double when I win? Does somebody always pay double?
>>A: Yes. Somebody always pays double. There are only two ways you can win: by discard or by self-pick. If you take a discard to win, the discarder always pays double. If you pick it yourself, everybody always pays double. If you win by redeeming a joker, you picked it yourself (everybody pays you double) - nobody "gave" you the joker (nobody discarded it - you TOOK it, with a tile you picked yourself).

Hello Bindy,
The player in your example won because she redeemed a joker as her last action. FAQ 19AN, which you quoted, ends with this sentence:

If you win by redeeming a joker, you picked it yourself (everybody pays you double) - nobody "gave" you the joker (nobody discarded it - you TOOK it, with a tile you picked yourself).

Did you just miss seeing that part? Or is there something unclear in my wording? If the latter, please show me which part of my wording confused you, so I can improve it.
By the way: This ruling was given in the January 2006, 2007, and 2009 NMJL bulletins.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 7, 2009

Another 2-player variant?

>From: Chris
>Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 6:48:33 AM
>Subject: Two Player Mahjong Variant
>Hello Mr. Sloper,
>I've been reading your site about mahjong quite a lot lately. Thank you for putting it together and continuing to work on it. I actually found it while looking for rules for Hanafuda and exploring from there.
>In any case, I'm writing to inform you of another two player mahjong variant. It is offered by the online gaming site http://www.kong88.com and here's a link to the rules:
>http://www.kong88.com/?q=_eng/mahjong1on1.htm
>It is played using only dots and honors. The rules are not quite complete, and I have not yet tried their (free) software to get the remaining details, such as whether only one or both players can score points at the end of a hand.
>The game may be enjoyable by couples or new people learning the mechanics of mahjong.
>Take care,
>Chris

Hi Chris,
Thanks for pointing me to that page. I'm not sure I want to add that to FAQ 2b (the list of variants) but I might want to add it to FAQ 13. And that raises the whole question of whether the things listed in FAQ 13 all ought to be listed in FAQ 2b!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 5, 2009

When is the Window of Opportunity closed?

>From: Gere
>Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 7:07:26 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jong Q&A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: At our weekly game a problem arose that we hope you can clarify. The player to the right of the discarder picked a tile but did not rack or discard it, another person at the table then called for the previous discard to which a heated discussion ensued. The rule from the League seemed clear that the “tile must be racked” to make the previous tile dead. Much was said about how in tournament play the tiles are not racked but once picked, the previous is considered dead. Can you please enlighten us and settle this argument once and for all. Thank you, Gere

Hi Gere,
The Window of Opportunity rule is Frequently Asked Question #19C. Please scroll up and find the links to the FAQs, above left (they're indicated by a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ). Find the link to FAQ #19 (it's indicated by a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this ) and click it. Bookmark the page for your future reference. Scroll down and find the answer to question C. Please always check the FAQs first, before asking a question.

One thing you said:

>in tournament play the tiles are not racked but once picked, the previous is considered dead.

Not in any tournament I've played in. In a tournament, the rules are more STRICT, not more LAX. But there's an exception to every rule, so it's possible that some tournament organizer somewhere uses a "tighter" (more narrow) Window of Opportunity rule. But I think the lady who used that argument probably misremembered or just experienced a fluke, an event or practice that went unchallenged.

HOWEVER, if your group wants to set a table rule, there's no mah jongg police gonna say you can't. Read FAQ 14.

Interestingly, I've answered a couple of tournament-rules questions lately. You can scroll down and see them.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 3, 2009

Is it necessary to get a "gaming permit" to host a tournament in NY?

From: "Susan
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
> My mah-jongg question or comment is:
> I've read the FAQ's about hosting a tournament.
> Is it necessary to get some kind of 'gaming permit' to host a tournament in
> a public restaurant?
> I live in NY state....
> Thanks,
> Susan

Hi Susan,
Firstly, I have to tell you that I am not a lawyer. This forum is intended for general educational and entertainment purposes and is not legal advice.

But in my (NON-LAWYER) opinion, since mah jongg is more skill than luck (as opposed to Bingo, for instance, which is all luck), you can probably listen to that old adage, "better to ask forgiveness than permission." By the time you check with the local authorities, one of whom sends you to another who sends you to yet another, none of them knowing the answer, global warming will have melted Antarctica and the ocean will cover the restaurant where you want to hold your tournament!

What you're running is a contest. Not a gambling activity. Different rules apply. But don't ask me what the rules are. I don't live in New York (I haven't lived there since the early seventies!). As long as the restaurant is cool with hosting your tournament, go for it.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 2, 2009

Two suspicious rulings, part 3

>From: Chak12
>Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:21 PM
>Subject: Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Hi Tom
>Yes, I am still smarting from being called "dead." LOL. I admit it. It was such a pretty hand, 678 dots with opposite dragons, concealed and 35 points. Lovely.
>We are having a tournament this weekend and we've decided not to enforce the "mahj tile on top of the rack rule." However, the good thing about what happened to me is that I will be very careful when playing in tournaments to read their rules and pay more attention. You can be sure that I will always put my mahj tile on TOP of my rack, just to be sure. If only I could take lessons from you......
>Thanks, Helaine
>PS - You are correct - The MJ League did agree with the replacing joker AFTER picking tile rule. So many players just replace jokers first, that it's a hard habit to break. But once you are called dead, you'll never forget it!

Hi Helaine, you wrote:
So many players just replace jokers first
Really. I've never seen anyone do that without being called dead.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 2, 2009

Speed of play

>From: william
>Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:57 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: after i play how much time is alloted to the next player to decide his or her move. this applies also when we charleston in the beginning of the game

Hi William,
There isn't anything in the official rulebook on this, so it pretty much depends on the speed of the players at the table. I'm not sure exactly where you're coming from with this question. It could be...
How much time should I limit myself to when taking a turn? Or...
How much of a time limit can I beat our slow player over the head with?

The answer I give you depends very much on which question you're asking!
Ten seconds. Watch the other players, and do your best not to take longer than they do (and it's also a good idea not to be a lot faster than they are, too).
If your problem is that you've got a slow player, that's an entirely different matter requiring tact and consensus. Read FAQ 19BA (click the FAQ 19 link above left).

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 2, 2009

Two suspicious rulings, part 2

>From: Chak12
>Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:12 AM
>Subject: Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Hi
>Thank you for taking the time to answer. I did call the National Mah Jongg League about the discard mah jongg tile rule, and their "official" position on putting the discarded "mahj" tile on top of the rack is - they do not call you dead if you put the discarded mahj tile in your rack. They said you CAN put the discarded tile in your rack if you want, and don't have to put it on TOP of your rack first. That is a "tournament" rule, and not their official position. There does seem to be a lot of discrepancies on this one.
>Helaine

Hi Helaine,
Okay, so as for your suspicious rule #2, the NMJL told you that the home rules differ from the strict rules used in some tournaments. I did allude to that in page 101 of my book and in my FAQ 19K.
You didn't mention suspicious rule #1. I assume the NMJL's answer was the same as the one I gave you in FAQ 19M. You also wrote:

There does seem to be a lot of discrepancies on this one.
I understand that you're still smarting from being called dead in the tournament. But I assure you, tournament rules need to be more strict than home rules. They don't do it just to spite my Helaine! Check out FAQ 21 to learn more about tournaments. If you had learned mah-jongg from ME rather than whoever you learned it from, you would have been forewarned about tournament rules.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 2, 2009

Two suspicious rulings

>From: "Chak12
>Sent: Mon, November 2, 2009 4:39:26 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>I recently played in two local tournaments. These rules are in effect:
>
>1. When replacing a joker - you must PICK your tile first, THEN do the joker replacement or you will be called DEAD - This happened to my friend. She replaced the joker first, then picked from the wall. She was "dead" because she didn't have 13 tiles in her hand.
>
>2. When calling Mah Jongg from another player's discard, you must put THAT TILE on TOP of YOUR rack, not IN your rack or you will be called DEAD. This happened to ME and I was called dead on a nice 35 point concealed hand. Just because I put the green dragon in my rack before I exposed my entire mah Jongg. It was so obvious I was not cheating and the other players loved that I was dead and then proceeded to continue playing to a WALL game. They then told me I was not eligible for the 10 points for a wall game.
>
> These two rules seem to be appearing recently because the word is there is a lot of cheating going on. I was really annoyed and my friend was too, since I felt like I won that hand legitimately. Can you tell me who starting these two rules and are they OFFICIAL?
>Thanks, Helaine

Hi Helaine, you wrote:

These two rules seem to be appearing recently because the word is there is a lot of cheating going on.
Appearances can be deceiving!

Can you tell me who starting these two rules
Some unknown person in the National Mah Jongg League (I don't know who).

are they OFFICIAL?
As for your suspicious rule #1: Open your official rulebook to page 19. And look in the January 2006 NMJL bulletin. Also look in my book on p. 58 (rules 86a & c), and on p. 91.
And read Frequently Asked Question #19M. Please scroll up and find the links to the FAQs, above left (they're indicated by a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ). Find the link to FAQ #19 (it's indicated by a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this ) and click it. Bookmark the page for your future reference. Scroll down and find the answer to question M.

As for your suspicious rule #2: see my book on p. 54 (rule 66b), and pp. 100-101, and read FAQ 19K, above left. Please always check the FAQs first, before asking a question.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
November 2, 2009

Has anyone played with either the AMJA Card or the Marvelous Mah Jongg Card?

>From: MarshaHK
>Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 3:04 PM
>Subject: alternate mah jongg cards
>Has anyone played with either the AMJA Card or the Marvelous Mah Jongg Card? How do they compare with the NMJL card in terms of clarity of instructions and complexity of hands? Did you like them enough to get new versions again next year?

What is the table rotation for two tables?

>From: MBHaven
>Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 11:14 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>What is the table rotation for two tables? [Eight people]
>Thank you,
> Betti

Hi Betti,
There's no written rule on this, so you get to decide how to do it in order to accomplish your desired purpose, insofar as is feasible within your time limit.
You should see FAQ 21 (above left) to see how some tournaments have handled multiple-table player rotation, and FAQ 19BB to see how single-table player rotation works, and factor those into your thinking.
Consider how long the play session will be for your two tables, and consider that each round (one circuit in which the deal goes around the table one time) takes approximately one hour (possibly as much as an hour and a half). So if your play session is two hours, then you only need one rotation.
Consider also that one table will inevitably finish their round before the other does, so there'll be down time for those players between rounds -- and the players at the second table will want a nosh/restroom break since the players at the first table got one.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 31, 2009

Exposure foofaw (was: "Is she dead?")

>From: Michelle
>Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:02 AM
>Subject: Re: Re:
>Thanks for answering my question. I have one more if you don't mind addressing it.
>A player called a discarded tile. Instead of taking the tile off the table for a pung on her rack, she put up 2 of that tile from her hand and a joker. Then she said she had made a mistake and put the joker back in her hand, replacing it with the tile that had been discarded. How should that situation have been handled?
>Thanks again for sharing your expertise.
>Michelle

Hi Michelle,
Sounds to me like nothing much happened there. The way you describe it, she merely slipped up in the exposure, forgetting to pick up the discard at first, and unintentionally showing off her joker. The way you describe it, she corrected the error before she discarded. If I correctly read the situation, she was fine.
However, if she discarded before correcting the oversight, then she could rightfully be called dead. In a tournament, she would definitely be dead. In a friendly home game, she might be forgiven.
By the way, I suppose the proper word is actually "foofaraw," not "foofaw," but "foofaraw" is a "ruckus" and all I meant to imply by my title above was "confusion/slip-up/minor goof." We all experience little brain farts (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24245365/) now and then. But I didn't want to use the word "fart" in the subject title. (^_^) Okay, this has gotten very silly...!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
Halloween Day, 2009

Can I redeem more than one joker in a turn?

From: "Lawrence
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:52 AM
Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
> My mah-jongg question or comment is:
> Assume you have exposed a kong of two 4 craks and two jokers, if
> another player has two 4 craks in his hand can he exchange both (at
> the same time) assuming it's his turn for the two jokers or can he
> only exchange one at a time?

From: "Lawrence
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:57 AM
Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
> My mah-jongg question or comment is:
> Please ignore my last question, I just saw the answer on FAQ. Missed
> it the first time.

Hi Lawrence,
It tickles me pink when the FAQs work! (^_^)
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
Halloween Day, 2009

Is she dead?

>From: Michelle
>Sent: Fri, October 30, 2009 2:32:07 PM
>Subject:
>Hi,
>A question came up at our game today. Player A forgot to pick a tile and just exchanged a joker from player C's rack. Player B picked and discarded after pausing after the joker exchange. Player C began to pick when player A stated she had forgotten to pick. Was Player A dead at this point or was she permitted to continue to play? Thanks.
>Michelle

Hi Michelle,
Yes, she's dead.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 30, 2009

How do I find a teacher in my area?

>From: Jodi
>Sent: Thu, October 29, 2009 11:40:18 AM
>Subject: Mah Jongg
>Hello Tom,
>DO you know a good teacher in the Ft. Lauderdale Florida area?
>Jodi

Hi Jodi,
Take a look in FAQ 4a and the Find Players BB. Please scroll up and find the links to the FAQs and Bulletin Boards, above left (they're indicated by a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ).
May the teacher be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 29, 2009

What's the point of rolling dice? And: regarding wall temperature.

>From: Donna
>Sent: Thu, October 29, 2009 6:01:00 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: Can you tell me what the point of rolling the dice and breaking the wall is if it's hot until the very end. It seems like a wasteful step in the game when the broken wall has no meaning. On a cold wall you can't pick a tile even if it will give you mah jongg. On a "warm" wall, you can pick if it will give you mah jongg, but on a hot wall you can pick for an exposure. What is the purpose ? Do you know the symbolism of breaking the wall?
>Donna

Hi Donna, you wrote:

Can you tell me what the point of rolling the dice and breaking the wall is
I already have. See FAQ 19AP and Column 403. You can get to the FAQs by clicking the links above left. You can get to the columns by clicking the purple banner atop this page.

the broken wall has no meaning.
That's right. No more "meaning" than any other part of the wall. It's not supposed to have any meaning (according to the official rules, anyway).

On a cold wall you can't pick a tile even if it will give you mah jongg. On a "warm" wall, you can pick if it will give you mah jongg, but on a hot wall you can pick for an exposure.
Please read FAQs 14 and 19Y. Since "wall temperature" is not a concept supported by the official rules, and since every group has their own definitions of those unofficial rules, I hadn't heard these rules defined the way you just defined them for me. Interestingly, the way I had been defining "wall temperature" was to state the rule's effect on the discarder -- and the way you are defining "wall temperature" is to state the rule's effect on the caller. The best definition of a rule would state the rule's effect on all affected players.

Since it is not my intent (either in the FAQs or in my book) to attempt to document all possible table rules, though, I might not revise FAQ 19Y based on this new information you've given me.

By the way, I assume the word "pick" as you are using it means "take a freshly discarded tile." I am accustomed to the word having a distinctly different meaning ("take a tile from the wall"), and have written definitions in my book accordingly. I wrote about multiple-usage words like these in my column 353. We have to be cognizant that a term can be misunderstood by others when a term is used in different ways by different players.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 29, 2009

do you know of any good tournaments in my area??

> From: stlou13
>Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:50 AM
>Subject: Re: classes
>do you know of any good maj jong tournaments in my area??

All known tournaments are listed in FAQ 4a. Please scroll up and find the links to the FAQs, above left (they're indicated by a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ). Please always check the FAQs first, before asking a question. For tournaments and players, you should also check the Find Players BB (the bulletin board links are also above left).
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 28, 2009

Teacher listing 2

>From: stlou13
>Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:15 PM
>Subject: Re: classes
>okay what do you need to know to do so, thank you,

Look at the other teacher listings at http://www.sloperama.com/majexchange/links.htm
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 27, 2009

Teacher listing

>From: "stlou13
>Sent: Tue, October 27, 2009 2:58:39 PM
>Subject: classes
>How do I post myself as a teacher? I live in the Ft. Lauderdale Florida area, Thanks Sheila

You don't post it yourself. You send me the particulars, and I post it.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 27, 2009

Nintendo, part 3

>From: Dale
>Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:47 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: I was just reading you FAQ 7e and saw your discussion on Nintendo sets. I just wanted you to know that the first set I purchased was in 1974 was a Nintendo set which I still have, was from a Korean gift shop on Olympic Blvd. in Los Angeles. This set has Western indices on it, so Nintendo did make sets with them. I just thought you would like to know.
>Have a great day!
>Dale

Okay, thanks Dale!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 26, 2009

when you are calling a person dead does it have to be your turn?

>From: "CKarlin
>Sent: Fri, October 23, 2009 6:30:54 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>when you are calling a person dead does it have to be your turn?
>Thank you
>Tammy

Nope.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 23, 2009

Frequently Asked Question #19P

>From: Myra
>Sent: Fri, October 23, 2009 3:22:37 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>When a player has declared a hand dead due to exposing the wrong tiles and there is a joker in a previous exposure sitting on top her rack, can another player switch out the natural tile for the joker in that exposure?

Hi Myra,
Please scroll up and find the links to the Frequently Asked Questions (look for the blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ). Find the link to FAQ #19 (it's marked with a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this ) and click it.

After you've landed at the FAQ 19 page, please bookmark it so you can easily return to it anytime you have a mah-jongg question. Answers to all of the most frequently-asked questions about American (NMJL) mah-jongg are found in FAQ 19. Always check the FAQs first before asking a question.

In the case of the question you have asked, read FAQ 19P. If you still have a question after reading the FAQ, just ask.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 23, 2009

Please tell us how our unofficial table rules are supposed to work

>From: bbjmuffins
>Sent: Thu, October 22, 2009 9:49:44 AM
>Subject: Mah Jongg
>My question is about Mah Jongg? If a player turns over the last tile in the "hot wall," does that end the game or does the next player have a chance to replace a tile on her rack to call Mah Jongg?
>Terri

Hi Terri,
The way you describe the way your group plays, it sounds to me like you are not playing by the official NMJL rules. And I'm not only referring to your use of a wall with some sort of "temperature" (FAQ 19Y).

In the official rules, a player doesn't turn over the last tile for all to see -- she does the same thing with that tile as she does with any other: she takes it and looks at it privately to see if it is useful in her hand or not. Then she discards a safe tile (and it might not be that tile taken from the wall).
In the official rules, no player can call mah-jongg by replacing a tile on her rack during some other player's turn.
In the official rules, the only way someone can declare mah-jongg is if she has 14 tiles in her hand.
In the official rules, it's impossible for "the next player" (after the player who takes the last tile from the wall) to have 14 tiles in her hand.

So, since I don't know what your special rules are, I can't answer your question. Please read FAQ 14 -- you can link to the Frequently Asked Questions above left.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 22, 2009

Is she dead?

>From: Shelly
>Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 11:18:59 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: A player calls a tile, racks it without exposing and then starts to call her discard. I say she is dead; the others don't agree. (She said she forgot.) What's the ruling?

Hi Shelly,
Even if this happened in a tournament, she would not be dead (based on what you said).
You said she STARTED to name her discard but did not finish saying the tile's name. If that's really the case, then she isn't dead. The discard isn't "down" until she FINISHES saying the discard's name OR touches the discard to the table (whichever occurs first).
The "down" rule is given in FAQ 19 (it's the very first rule described).
In a non-tournament situation (without a judge) and in the absence of a rulebook, majority rules. In your case, 2 out of 3 players said she was not dead, and that's a majority (the erring player's vote doesn't count). In future cases, I recommend having a rulebook and a universal understanding of the "down" rule.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 19, 2009

Abercrombie & Fitch

>From: Dale
>Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 9:19 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: Can you tell me anything about the Abercrombie & Fitch connection to Mah-Jongg? I recently purchased a vintage set that came with an instruction booklet published by them copyrighted in 1922. The illustrations in the booklet matched the tiles in the set. The only thing I can find out about Abercrombie & Fitch is on Wikipedia and it states they were the first to import Mah-Jongg sets into the United States.
>The set also came with a first edition Babcock “Red Book”. I don’t think that book came with the set originally. Is it possible there was a tie with the Mah-Jongg Sales Co. of America? It seems strange that all the Mah-Jongg web sites I go to don’t mention Abercrombie & Fitch.
>I enjoy your website and I’ve also purchased your book which I find quite valuable.
>Thanks for answering my question,
>Dale

Hi Dale, you wrote:

The only thing I can find out about Abercrombie & Fitch is on Wikipedia and it states they were the first to import Mah-Jongg sets into the United States.
Yeah, well. You can't believe everything you read on Wikipedia. Don't get me wrong, it's a great resource. But it's easy for anyone to insert inaccuracies there.

I checked out that particular mention of Abercrombie & Fitch when it first appeared on Wikipedia. I went on the Abercrombie & Fitch website and found the original text the Wikipedia contributor cited. Please forgive me for relying on memory rather than redoing that research today. As I recall, the text on the store's website did not claim that they were the first to bring mah-jongg sets into the United States. Rather, their boast was that they were the first STORE to import THEIR OWN sets into the United States.

In other words, they weren't selling Babcock sets but ones that they'd commissioned and imported. A long time ago, I decided to keep a hands-off approach to the mah-jongg entry on Wikipedia. It's just too messy, and would involve fights with too many contributors, and besides, it's unpaid, and I give the real story here on my site and in my book, so why bother.

If you're still interested, you can probably still find the original quote on the Abercrombie website, and you could amend the entry on Wikipedia. Anyone can.

Is it possible there was a tie with the Mah-Jongg Sales Co. of America?
Anything is possible. For all I know, the store made a deal with Babcock. I don't know. It's not unusual for sets to be discovered today with multiple booklets. Maybe Abercrombie sold their booklets (as a stand-alone purchase) in addition to their sets. Or maybe Babcock sold his separately from his sets. Or maybe when someone bought a hardcover book, he or she would give the booklet to a friend to study. The 1920's was a time when information about mah-jongg was in tremendous demand. Not everybody had to have a set (one in four was enough), but everybody had to know how to play.

It seems strange that all the Mah-Jongg web sites I go to don’t mention Abercrombie & Fitch.
I hope it no longer seems strange, now that I've explained the misrepresentation on Wikipedia.

And I'm delighted that you enjoy my book and my website! (^_^) May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 18, 2009

NMJL vs. AMJA Q2 (was "It's hard to find people to play with")

From: "Fitzpatrick
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:57 PM
Subject: Another NMJL vs. AMJA question
> Mr. Sloper -
> This question is kind of a follow-up to the question I asked you last month...I hope this question isn't controversial, but I cannot find it anywhere.
> Why did the AMJA form? Was there animosity between the two groups? I also just noticed on the box cover of Shangai: Second Dynasty that it was the official game of the AMJA, and the 2000 AMJA card was included in the game (which you did a fantastic job, of course). In your book, however, you refer to the NMJL card and don't talk about the AMJA at all. Why was that? Did you have a falling out with the AMJA? I just want to know the history as to why there had to be a second organization when the NMJL seemed to be the consensus on the way to play American Mah-Jong. Again, I'm not trying to get too personal or controversial, and I mean no disrespect, but it would be interesting to know why things are the way they are. Thanks.

Hi Fitzpatrick,
Why are there both a Republican party and a Democratic party, why both Ford and GM? The question suggests that everybody should always be satisfied with having one provider of a particular service or commodity. If you look at the history of American-style mah-jongg, you'll see that the AMJA is not the first "upstart" trying to provide an alternative to the big "monopoly." The founder of the AMJA just wanted to provide her own take on how an American mah-jongg card could be. When Activision couldn't work out a deal with the NMJL, we went to the AMJA, is all I can say. Today the NMJL is still, and far and away, the major player. The NMJL has cooperated in world mah-jongg events, while the AMJA chooses to stay focused exclusively on America. This is all I care to say about the matter.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 16, 2009

How do I get replacement tiles?

>From: "LJLieblich
>Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 2:50:08 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>In the picture where you ask for cleaning tips, the tile in the middle seems to be just like the ones I am trying to get replacements for. Where could I find them?
>Thanks, Louise

Hi Louise,
1. You should check out the Tiles For Sale Bulletin Board first - check with all individuals and websites there who offer replacement tiles to see if any of them have tiles that match yours.
2. Then after doing that and not finding what you need, you can post an announcement on the Tiles Wanted Bulletin Board. You can link to the bulletin boards above left.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 16, 2009

How does seat rotation work?

From: Brenda
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 2:26:24 PM
Subject: rotation question
What is the rule on passing the dice after four hands have been played.
Brenda
lorenda1340

Hi Brenda,
Please scroll up and find the links to the Frequently Asked Questions (look for the blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ). Find the link to FAQ #19 (it's marked with a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this ) and click it.

After you've landed at the FAQ 19 page, please bookmark it so you can easily return to it anytime you have a mah-jongg question. Answers to all of the most frequently-asked questions about American (NMJL) mah-jongg are found in FAQ 19. Always check the FAQs first before asking a question.

In the case of the question you have asked, read FAQ 19BB.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 16, 2009

one of your puzzle options is called ______ Boxes?

>From: "cmk336
>Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 7:43:33 AM
>Subject: mah jongg
>In the game Mah Jongg, one of your puzzle options is called ______ Boxes?
>Thanks,
>Christy

Hi Christy,
I assume you are asking a question about a tile-matching game. But I'm sorry, I don't know what your question is, or which tile-matching game your question is about. Some suggested reading:
http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/mjfaq01.htm
http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/mjfaq24.htm
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/entry65.htm
May the answers be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 16, 2009

Please give this initiative some attention in your website.

>From: Jan Ketzer
>Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 1:58 PM
>Subject: [no subject]
>Dear Tom,
>As you know we organize the Worldchampionship MAHJONG 2010 in the Netherlands. We have made for the PR some projects.
>One of them is the STAMPproject. So me: Jan Ketzer (DAJA) has produced a special stamp: very rare in the world.(see enclosure)
>A second stamp is coming in a couple of weeks it is a special MAHJONG CHRISTMAS STAMP.
>The profit is for the Organization of the Championship. The prize for 1 copy is Euro 7,50 + the International postage(= Euro 1,50).
> It is possible to pay via PAYPAL.( or via the bankaccount + costs).
>Please give this initiative some attention in your website. If orders are coming I make an invoice and send that back by @mail.If the money is on the account we 'll send the stamps by official post.
>Of course you are be able to inform about this initiative and my person to mr. Robert Rijnders, president of the Dutch league of Mahjong players and also of the European league of MAHJONG.
>The stamps are already published on the site of the WMC 2010, Mahjongnews and The Dutch Mahjongmuseum
>I hope on your cooperation
>With friendly regards
>Jan W.Ketzer DAJA
>Brederostraat 19
>7552 KA Hengelo
>the Netherlands
> ORDERS TO: mahjongstamps@rodedraaktwente.nl

Hi Jan,
Okay, I've posted your announcement on the Q&A BB and on the Accessories For Sale BB. Good luck!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
The Ides of October, 2009

Links for your FAQs

>From: Andreas
>Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:46:16 AM
>Subject: Links to Hanfuda & HKOS Flash Game
>Dear Mr. Sloper,
>as a fan of your Mahjong site I would like to share the two following links with you:
>http://www.itsmahjong.com/
>http://www.gamedesign.jp/flash/hanafuda/hanafuda_e.html
>This fist link is a Hongkong Mahjong Flash game. The second link points to a Hanafuda Flash Game.
>I hope these links help you to make your great site even more complete…
>Cheers from Frankfurt/Germany
>Andy

Thanks, Andy!
I added those links.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 13, 2009

How much is my set worth, part 2

>From: Alynne
>Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:12 PM
>Subject: Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A - How much is my set worth?
>Tom,
>Thanks for your reply. I was wondering why I could not find a reference to this doubling scale anywhere.
>Oh, and the box is a wooden slide top box, no drawers. I have included a picture of it standing on its side.
>The pieces are in good condition. They show wear from age and use, but none are chipped or broken.
>Thanks Again!
>Alynne

Hello Alynne,
Okay, so of course (as it says in FAQ 7h) "good" means "Item is worn but reasonably attractive; any normal person would notice the defects without having to look for them."
The brass dice container might belong, I don't know. You didn't mention whether the doubling scale fits in the box or not. Let's say the set is worth between $70 and $120.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 7, 2009

How much is my set worth?

>From: Alynne
>Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 4:07 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A - How much is my set worth?
>Hello:
>Thank you for taking the time to read my question.
>I have a Mah-Jongg set that I found in the attic when I moved into my home. Therefore, no history goes along with this set. Would you be able to determine the value of my set from the information below?
>From researching your site, I would place the set in the late 1920's. It looks very much like the plentiful antique sets you describe with one deviation. My set comes with a doubling scale made by Gameco and is called Ma Chuck. (photos included).
>The set contains 144 pieces made of bone and bamboo. Each piece is 1" high x 3/4" Wide x 1/2" Tall. The bone is 1/8" thick and is dovetailed into the bamboo.
>I have 36 1 spot scoring sticks, 40 2 spot scoring sticks, 8 5 spot scoring sticks and 33 10 spot scoring sticks.
>There are four wind discs and a cylindrical container. (picture)
>I have a metal dice container with 4 tiny bone dice, the "1" does not exist on the die but is replaced by an indent. The "4" is red. (picture)
>The set comes with a doubling scale - a read sheath with a yellow pull out scoring table. Written on the front of the red sheath is: Gameco Doubling Scale for the popular Chinese character game Ma Chuck. It was printed by Gabriel-Meyerfield Co. of Sanfrancisco, CA and states that copywright was applied for February 26, 1923. (picture)
>The craks are older as identified by the simpler chinese pictograph (picture)
>1 Bam tiles depict a peacock (picture)
>8 flower tiles: 4 seasons and 4 games (picture)
>Dragons are red and green Chinese characters (picture)
>White Dragons are blank tiles.
>No Jokers
>Thanks Again,
>Alynne

Hello Alynne,
It's very unusual to sell a set without any kind of container (box or case). And you didn't tell me the condition of the tiles. So all I can do is give you a very broad range. The metal dice container is unusual - never saw one of those before. It might not be original to the set (that would be bad, reducing the set's value). The doubling scale also is probably not original to the set. The wind discs have been written on by a previous owner, and some of the writing has rubbed off. So that's bad. And it's missing the 4 extra blank tiles that always came with sets back then (that's bad, reducing the set's value). The best thing about the set appears to be the phoenix/dragon dragon tiles. Those aren't unusual, but they are relatively rare, increasing the value of the set of tiles.
All together, it might go for anywhere from $60 to $100, give or take $20 (in other words, given a margin of error of $20, it might go for anywhere from $40 to $120). The value would perhaps be a little higher if it was in a nice box.
You might get more for it if you sold the parts separately (the 144 tiles as one unit, of course).
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 7, 2009

How do I find people to play mah-jongg with?

>From: sherri
>Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 10:02 AM
>Subject: mahjongg in boca
>Hey tom.....am desperately trying to find a game in boca raton, florida......any suggestions about how to go about finding one???? Would be so greatful for your help!! Thanks!!!!!

Hi Sherri,
This question has been asked many times before. You can find the answer to this question, and many other often-asked questions, in the "Frequently Asked Questions" ("FAQs"). You have asked FAQ #15. Please scroll up and find the links to the FAQs, above left (they're indicated by a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this ). Find the link to FAQ #15 and click it. Please always check the FAQs first, before asking a question.
May the players be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 7, 2009

"Vintage" NMJL cards

>From: Linda
>Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 5:11 PM
>Subject: vintage mah cards
>How far back do official Nat'l Mah Jong league cards go ? Were there cards in 1945? Any idea if there's a place to go to find vintage cards, other than ebay? I'm interested in finding cards for specific years.
>I thought it would be fun on the birthdays of members of my groups, to play the card of their birth year.
>Thanks
>Linda

Hi Linda, you asked:

How far back do official Nat'l Mah Jong league cards go ? Were there cards in 1945?
Simple math. This year, 2009, the NMJL card says "72nd Year." That tells you that the NMJL began in 1937. That said, the first few years, the yearly lists of hands were given in a booklet - the earliest list of hands in card form that I've seen is 1941.

Any idea if there's a place to go to find vintage cards, other than ebay?
You can contact the vendors listed in FAQ 4a (see Frequently Asked Question links, above left) and on my Accessories For Sale Bulletin Board, and you should also try the vendors who offer replacement tiles for old sets -- they're listed in the Tiles For Sale Bulletin Board. Also, you can put an announcement of your own on my Accessories Wanted Bulletin Board. The bulletin board links are (you guessed it) above left.

I thought it would be fun on the birthdays of members of my groups, to play the card of their birth year.
So I guess you're saying that the people you play with are "vintage"! (^_^) (I never know what someone means by the term "vintage" but maybe this gives me a clue.)

May the cards be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 4, 2009

Hanafuda Solitaire

From: "Trevor
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 2:11 PM
Subject: Hanafuda Solitaire Games
> Greetings Mr. Sloper,
> I recently obtained some of Nintendo's Hanafuda cards that they
> offer through Club Nintendo, and I'm quite delighted with them. For me,
> as a fan of Nintendo, it's a great collector's item since it harkens
> back to the founding of the company. In any case, I love your website;
> it gave me a lot of great information about the cards and the game, but
> I was wondering if you knew or could point me in the direction of
> rulesets for single player Hanafuda games (if they exist).
> Unfortunately, I don't get to play the multiplayer varieties much, and
> it seems like Hanafuda information is much more sparse than I would
> expect on the Internet (English websites anyway), so I would appreciate
> any help you can offer. Thank you!
> Respectfully,
> Trevor

Hi Trevor,
I have found only two books in English about Hanafuda, and neither has any information about solitaire play.
Interestingly, some years back I spent a little time thinking about how to play some kind of solitaire game with Hanafuda, but didn't come up with anything then. I might play around with that some more.
If you want to try to design a solitaire game, I suggest that you keep in mind the main way of using Hanafuda: matching cards by suit, but endeavoring to make special sets with matched cards. Maybe start with a grid of face-down cards as in Concentration, or maybe something involving dealing cards to yourself, or maybe even with a starting row kind of like Klondike Solitaire. Let me know if you come up with something!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 4, 2009

Mahjong set made by Nintendo, part 2

>From: Steven
>Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 1:52 PM
>Subject: RE: Nintendo Mahjong Set
>Thank You for your speedy reply, Tom.
>I didn't account for the fact that it was about 7 am U.S. time when I emailled you, but you still got straight back to me!
>I'm still surprised that these Nintendo sets aren't ubiquitous, but I'm glad of the help: do you know of anyone who could shed more light on it's provenance/rarity? It was a gift from a former customer who used to be a chaplain in the merchant navy; who despite wishing to learn the game gave up after trying to read the enclosed instructions!
>I think it might be worth a punt on ebay, regardless: I'll let you know how it gets on
>Many Thanks,
>Steve

Hi Steve, you wrote:

do you know of anyone who could shed more light on it's provenance/rarity?
I doubt Nintendo sets are among the sets profiled by Jim May or CHarli, whose websites are listed in FAQ 4a (the FAQs are above left). But since you're just going to sell it, I don't see why you'd need to trouble yourself doing more research.

Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 4, 2009

Mahjong set made by Nintendo

>From: Steven
>Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 7:53 AM
>Subject: Nintendo Mahjong Set
>Hi there,
>Found your excellent website while searching for information on a recently acquired Mah Jong set, made by 'Nintendo Playing Card Company' (which I belive dates it between 1941 and 1963, as they were not known by this name outside those years.)
>As far as I can tell, the pieces are bone and bamboo, thay are embossed suspiciously smoothly, but have some sawmarks and 'character', as well as a duller sound when tapped than plastic. As shown in one of the pictures, there are veins/seams to many of the pieces; which show very clearly to the naked eye in daylight (unfortunately the camera has a harder time!)
>There are 144 pieces, eight of them Flowers/seasons, four of them blanks; four dice; and lots of ivory counting sticks. The Dot tiles have the five petalled flower you refer to, the one of bams features a peahen (I think) and the Flowers are four pairs. The 'Crak' tiles are of the more complex, modern design. The tiles measure 26mm x 17mm x 14mmdepth (of which approx 4mm is bamboo). The dragons are chinese characters, there are no western characters to be seen on any tile.
>The four Burgundy Plastic boxes which hold the pieces are marked 'Nintendo Playing Card Co. Ltd' on the underside. This is the only branding or English text anywhere.
>The case is pretty cheap, with a grey 'crocodile-skin' print pasted over the briefcase-style design. Enclosed was a copy of the (apparently infamous) booklet "directions of playing mah-jongg 'Chinese Game of Four Winds'", with slightly less mistranslations than other people describe their copies (confusingly?!). I assume this is all as it came from the factory as the four trays of tiles were still sealed when I recieved it (I know, I should have left them so!)
>I have attached as many photos as seems fair to impose upon you(!) and was really wondering if the Nintendo name has any cachet for collectors. I fully expected to find these things all over the internet, but it seems to be less common than that? Do you know anything about these sets, and potentially about their value?
>Many Thanks in advance,
>Steven

Hi Steven, you asked:

As far as I can tell, the pieces are bone and bamboo, thay are embossed suspiciously smoothly,
They sure look plastic to me!

was really wondering if the Nintendo name has any cachet for collectors.
It does for me, since I work in video games and have a collection of Nintendo playing cards. I couldn't say whether other mahjong collectors share my interest in things Nintendo.

I fully expected to find these things all over the internet, but it seems to be less common than that?
Yes. It does, doesn't it?

Do you know anything about these sets
Not a lot, no. I have one. Mine is all plastic (no bamboo) and has a different case. Mine still has the plastic wrap on the tiles in their trays. And it still has the original cardboard box that the whole set (in its case) came in.

and potentially about their value?
I can only guess. I don't remember offhand what I paid for mine, but that wouldn't necessarily reveal much about their value. My guess is that to a collector who sees "cachet" (as you say) in the Nintendo name, or a collector interested in Japanese sets, it would be worth more than to the usual collector. Probably no more than $200, I'm guessing.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 3, 2009

Was the seller truthful?

>From: nibavar
>Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 4:30 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>I bought this Mah Jonngg from eBay, the Seller described it as an old elephant bone Mah jonngg, made under Qing Dinasty: do you think it is true?
>Thanks and regards
>Giovanni

Was this set made in the Qing Dynasty?
Unlikely. The Qing Dynasty ended in 1911, and it doesn't look like a pre-1912 mah-jongg set to me. In particular, the jokers (the first character is 百 which means "hundred") and the box -- those look like circa 1930's to me.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 2, 2009

Got roped into organizing a tournament. Now what???

>From: Arlene
>Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 2:46 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: Please help! I’ve been asked by my MJ students to organize an afternoon charity tournament for them and don’t know where to start. Any suggestions will be immensely appreciated.
>Arlene
>[email deleted]

Hi Arlene,
Check out FAQ 21. You know where the FAQs are, I believe...
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
October 2, 2009

MCR and the primary fan

>From: Edwin
>Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:50:37 AM
>Subject: Choosing the primary scoring pattern when scoring in MCR
>Dear Tom,
>I refer to the interesting correspondence on MCR rules between you and ithinc, and I write with regard to a point raised about the notion of first choosing a primary scoring pattern (fan).
>While cases may be rare, it does seem probable that disputes may arise during scoring in which the order of scoring patterns claimed matters. I give an example here — concealed: 111b 222b 333b 5c, melded: 123d, won off discard of 5c.
>Because they are concealed, the sets of 111222333b can be freely arranged in two ways: Pure Triple Chows or Pure Shifted Pungs, both scoring patterns are worth 24 points. However, the claiming of other scoring patterns is dependent on which primary scoring pattern was decided. If Pure Triple Chows was claimed, the player can go on to claim Mixed Double Chows once (123b with 123d) and All Chows, for an additional 3 points only. However, if Pure Shifted Pungs was chosen, Three Concealed Pungs may be claimed instead, giving 16 points, and this is 13 points more than choosing Pure Triple Chows as the primary scoring pattern.
>So, in my opinion, this notion/practice has to do with scoring the fans in a systematic and practical way, yet allowing a player the freedom to choose the scoring patterns even though a less alert player may choose the combination with fewer points.
>Best regards,
>Edwin
>Singapore

Hi Edwin,
Well said. I now retract what I'd said in "The exclusionary rule in MCR, part 12," below. Hmm, maybe I ought to strike through that part retroactively...! (^_^)
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
September 30, 2009

Timing of joker redemption with a maj declaration

>From: Linda K
>Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 5:03:05 AM
>Subject: Mah Jong question
>Betsy throws a tile. Sue calls MahJongg with a concealed hand. Before she exposes her hand and picks up the thrown tile, she replaces a Joker. Is this legal?
>Thank you.

No.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
September 30, 2009

The exclusionary rule in MCR, part 15

>From: ithinc
>Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 10:26:44 PM
>Subject: Re: MCR Scoring - the Account-Once Principle
>Hi Tom,
>The four-set patterns 123B 345B 567B 789B is right such one. You excluding the principle 5 to apply to Four Shifted Chows is a misleadingness.
>Cheers,
>ithinc

Okay, I see. As before, we disagree on this point.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
September 27, 2009

It's hard to find people to play with

From: "Fitzpatrick W
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:01 PM
Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
> Mr. Sloper -
> Thanks for your site, and your book! I also have to thank you for the Shangai games!
> I have two questions for you which I have researched extensively for the answers to, but to no avail:
> 1) The first question is in several parts. What is the difference between the NMJL and the AMJA, besides the cards they put out? Are their philosophies different? I noticed that in your book, you talk about the NMJL, but you didn't talk much about the AMJA - why is that? Which group has more members, and which one would be the best group for a beginner like me?
> 2) I am interested in Mah-Jongg, but it is difficult for me to find people to play with. Unfortunately, some of it has to do with the fact that I do not fit the "typical" demographic of a Mah-Jongg player (i.e., I am a (relatively) young, male player who happens to be African American, which, at times, excludes me from certain Mah-Jongg circles). I want to learn the game because I like to learn new things, and I love all types of games. Ultimately, I'm going to get tired of playing the computer, and I would like to play live. How can I solve my dilemma?
> Any help with the above questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

From: "Fitzpatrick W
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:07 PM
Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
> Mr. Sloper -
> I forgot to add this to my previous e-mail.
> Just wanted to let you know that the link that you have to obtain the 2009 Shanghai Second Dynasty card file from the AMJA takes you to the AMJA website, but there is nothing on the website on how to purchase said file. Do you have another link to purchase it? Thanks.
> Sincerely,
> Chris W.

Hi Chris,
I'm really glad you enjoyed my book and my computer game. (^_^) I got the answers to your questions right here:

The National Mah Jongg League is the big guy on the block. The American Mah-Jongg Association is the alternate organization with a smaller membership. The AMJA's card is the change-of-pace alternate, with some fun differences. They use the same rules, with one difference: the AMJA card indicates some places where jokers are required (like for instance JJ, a joker pair). Both organizations cater primarily to female players. For the most part, the male players are husbands of female players. And the demographic is generally older than you (based on what you said). I think you should use the questionnaire in FAQ 2a to choose the kind of mahjong that would be more suitable for you.

After you read FAQ 2a, read FAQ 15. And use my Find Players Bulletin Board - first you check it for players in your area, before you put up an announcement of your own.

This is the first year that the AMJA has not made a Shanghai update file available for their members. My guess is that the sales of the update file have diminished below the break-even point for them.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
September 27, 2009

The exclusionary rule in MCR, part 14

>From: ithinc
>Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 3:25 PM
>Subject: MCR Scoring - the Account-Once Principle
>Hello Tom,
>This is a word play.
>For the example 234C 567C 234D 567D, I claim Short Straight(234C 567C), Mixed Double Chow(234C 234D), Mixed Double Chow(567C 567D) with the help of the Account-Once Principle. There is no remaining sets now and so the Account-Once Principle does not work any more. How about claiming another Short Straight(234D 567D) now? Is there any rule prohibiting to do so?
>This is the same situation as the example 123B 345B 567B 789B. Your limiting the Account-Once Principle to two- or three-set patterns only is not proper.
>Cheers,
>ithinc

Hi ithinc,
I discussed this exact example in my FAQ 22. Please have a look at it.
Are there any four-set patterns or one-set patterns that my wording has overlooked?
Cheers,
Tom

Color key


Blue = an FAQ, a question that's been asked frequently.
Purple = an angry email from a disgruntled reader.
Green = a happy email from a grateful reader.
Red = a technical support question about a computer game.
Orange = a weird or off-topic email.
Black = none of the above. Regular question or comment.

MORE Q&A!!
CLICK HERE to read older Q&A postings!