There is a furiten situation (see below), or
You don't have enough fan, or you have no yaku (see below).
Latest update: August 26, 2014
Frequently Asked Question #25: "I downloaded a Japanese mahjong game, and I had a great hand going. My winning tile came up, but the computer wouldn't let me claim mahjong. What's up with that?"
There are two reasons this can happen.
There is a furiten situation (see below), or
You don't have enough fan, or you have no yaku (see below).
Note: Some computer games will let you claim mahjong despite a furiten or lack of yaku - when you do declare false mahjong, though, an error penalty applies. A penalty error is called chombo, and the penalty is that you must pay 8000 points : 4,000 to the dealer (oya) and 2,000 to the two non-dealers (ko). If you are the dealer, the penalty is 12,000 points: 4,000 to each of the three others. Your computer game may have an optional setting so you can choose to have the penalty apply, rather than have a penalty action merely disallowed. Some players might prefer a realistic penalty (in order to learn more effectively) and others might prefer a more leisurely play experience.
FURITENFuriten is from the Chinese, meaning "sacred discard." Authors Shozo Kanai and Margaret Farrell, as well as Eleanor Noss Whitney (see FAQ 3) all use the term in reference to a discarded tile, so I previously used the term that way too. But in 2007 I learned from Steve Johnson and Benjamin Boas that in Japan today, the term furiten refers to a state in which the player is forbidden to win on a discarded tile. Steve Johnson explains, "a hand is furiten if it can win on a previous discard, if it can win on a tile thrown previously this [go-]round, or if it can win on any tile thrown since riichi has been declared" (and not claimed by the player when initially thrown).
When a player's hand is furiten, the player must not win by discard, under penalty of chombo. Many Japanese computer mahjong games do not permit the player to do anything that would incur the chombo penalty... Thus inspiring the frequently asked question this article was written to answer.
The following text is largely based on the instruction manual for Activision's discontinued computer game Shanghai Dynasty (I wrote the text as an employee of Activision at the time), subsequently heavily edited and reorganized in May of 2007. First, let's examine the three different circumstances that create a state of furiten.
The most common type of furiten is when you are ready to win on a tile you previously discarded yourself. For example, if you have a 2-3 sequence (what I call herein an "incomplete connected chow"), you need either a 1 or a 4 to complete it. If you previously discarded a 1 or 4, then the rule is that you are not allowed to go out on the same tile when it is subsequently discarded by someone else. The main reason for this rule is that it is unfair to the other player. Since you had previously discarded the 1 (for example), Japanese players hold that he has a right to expect that it is safe for him to throw a 1 onto the table. If the rule didn't exist and you take it to go out (and subsequently the thrower must pay you), then hard feelings can result (especially when real money is at stake).
In the instance illustrated above, if you discard the Eight Bam, you are one tile away from a win (you are tenpai). You are waiting for a One Bam or a Four Bam. Look at your discards. You discarded a Four Bam already, so you would be in a furiten situation if you discard the eight. It would be a penalty mistake (chombo) to declare a win on someone else's discard in this situation. Perhaps it would be better to discard the One Bam instead, and wait for another Eight Bam.
2. PASSING UP A DISCARD, DURING THE CURRENT GO-AROUND
Furiten is not limited to tiles that you yourself discard, however. Another type of furiten is a tile that you pass up within one turn of play around the table (what I call one go-around or go-round). If, for example, you have an incomplete Ryanpeikou ("Double Peikou") hand, and you just need to complete a chow, you probably have two ways to complete the chow. One way of completing the chow might give you Ryanpeikou (worth 3 fan) but the other way of completing the chow does not. Let's say you need a 3 or 6 to go out - and let's say that it's the 3 that gives you Ryanpeikou, so the 6 does not. If a player discards the 6, then you can pass up the 6 in hopes of self-picking the 3. But if you do pass up that valid winning tile, then for the remainder of the turn around the table (the go-around), that 6 causes a state of furiten to exist. If another player (before it is your turn again) discards the 3 that you need for the big yaku hand, you must not take it - all the players will know that you passed up on the 6 to take the 3 when you show your hand. The thrower of the 3 is not obligated to pay you - rather, you are obligated to pay the chombo penalty.
3. PASSING UP A DISCARD, AFTER DECLARING RIICHI
After you have declared riichi, you may either accidentally or intentionally pass up on a discard that could give you the win. If you do this, your hand is now furiten, and you can only win by tsumo (self-pick).
Furiten Disallows the Taking of Any Discard
It is a rule of Japanese majan that if a player's hand is furiten, he had better not claim ANY discard to go out. If the tiles you need to win include a tile you had discarded, then do not claim ANY discard for a win. You can self-pick (according to the "Furiten Tsumori Nara OK" rule which may be used by your computer game), OR you can divest yourself of tiles so that the tiles which you need to win do not include any type of "sacred discard."
In the example illustrated above, you declare riichi simultaneous with the discard of a One Dot. You are now waiting for either a Seven Dot or a Red Dragon. The Seven Dot puts you in furiten (look at your discards), so you may not declare win if someone discards a Red Dragon - that would be a penalty mistake (chombo). Having declared riichi, you can't change the hand to get out of furiten, so your only hope is to self-pick the winning tile.
Examples & Further Details
It can sometimes be difficult to recognize that you are furiten. For example, let's say you have three of a kind, plus one tile above or below it (for example, 2-3-3-3-4, and otherwise your hand has three complete groups-of-three or Kongs). This gives you three chances to go Out, and it's very easy to fail to realize them all.
Just looking at your discards is not a guaranteed way of making sure you don't violate the furiten rule; you also need to keep an eye on the other players' melds. The practice of turning claimed tiles sideways makes it easy to spot your own discards among opponents' melds - just don't forget to look there when you're in a possible furiten situation.
Here's another example. Let's say you have (all in one suit) 2-3-4-4-5-5-5-6-6-7-7-8-8. You have 5 chances to win: 1,3,4,6,9. Of those chances, the ones that earn you the best yaku are the 3 or the 6. Maybe you realized that the 3 and the 6 were good tiles to win on, but didn't realize that the 9 was a possibility too - then somebody discards the 9 and you don't take it. Then, before it's your turn again, you take a discarded 3. That would be chombo. Some more examples of how hard it is to see all the chances on a Pure hand: 1-2-3-4-5-5-5-6-6-6-7-8-9 (5 chances); 1-2-3-4-5-5-5-5-6-6--7-8-9 (5 chances); 2-3-4-4-4-5-5-5-6-6-6-7-8 (7 chances); and of course 1-1-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-9-9 (9 chances). If you are working on a Pure hand, and your computer game won't allow you to claim a tile, it's probably because there is a furiten involved.
Last example. Let's say you have: W-W-B4-B5-B6-C4-C5-C6-D4-D5-D6-D4-D4. You have 3 chances to win: W, D4, or D7. But if you had previously discarded a W (West wind), you had better not claim any of these 3 chances for a win. You can either get rid of the West winds (thus they are no longer needed to win, getting you out of furiten) or you can hope to pick a winning tile from the wall - or you can just hold out for tenpai at the end, or (more importantly than getting tenpai) even forget about winning, and just make sure you do not throw a tile that lets someone else win.
The 1-4-7 Principle
Although not directly a part of the concept of furiten, the 1-4-7 principle is well worth understanding. Always remember that the numbers "1-4-7," "2-5-8," and "3-6-9" are special. Why? Because either of two of them can finish an incomplete connected chow - and any one of them can complete a sequence of five-in-a-row and turn it into two chows. In the following discussion, when I say 1-4-7, I could just as easily be saying 2-5-8 or 3-6-9, so approach this concept with numerical flexibility. Whenever you have a sequence of five same-suit tiles, always check for a 1-4-7 opportunity. Of course, if one end of the sequence is a terminal (a 1 or 9), then it won't be a true 1-4-7. It might be a 1-4 or a 4-7 only.
Let's say you have the following tiles: C4-C5-C6-B4-B5-B6-D4-D4-D4-D5-D6-D7-D8. On this hand, you have 5 chances to win (all Dots): D3-D5-D6-D8-D9. The 4-5-6-7-8 combination (or any five-in-a-row combination) especially is significant, because even just by itself it gives 3 chances (in this case, 3-6-9) to turn into two complete sets. 3-6-9 is conceptually the same thing as 1-4-7.
If you are playing a computer majan game using the Japanese rules, and the computer will not give you the chance to claim a discarded tile for a win, it could well be because your hand is furiten. Look at the discards and exposures and see if perhaps there is a "sacred discard" situation. If you find that this is the case, you can either discard in an attempt to get out of furiten or you can hope to self-pick the win, or you can switch to defensive play.
If your hand is NOT furiten, then perhaps the problem is that your hand simply doesn't meet the minimum fan requirement. A computer game that doesn't permit chombo due to furiten also won't permit chombo for any other reason, such as not having yaku.
YOU NEED A YAKU TO WINIn Japanese mahjong, you need to have a yaku (a special scoring element, which could be a tile pattern or a special way of going out) worth at least one fan minimum (iihan shibari) before you are permitted to declare a win. After the dealer has 5 markers (for having won 5 successive hands), the game's minimum win requirement goes from 1 Fan to 2 Fan (Ryanhan Shibari). Dora tiles (which include red fives) do not count towards the yaku requirement. Again, from the instruction manual for the Activision computer game Shanghai Second Dynasty (I wrote this)...
You can earn a yaku either with a combination of tiles, or by some special circumstances or situations that exist when you declare a win. This section describes the situations which earn the yaku bonus. Below you can find illustrations of the special tile combinations which earn the yaku bonus.
ONE FAN YAKU ("Iihan Yaku") SITUATIONS
Going Out on the last tile of the wall ("Haitei") -- When the Wall counter reaches 14, the last tile has been drawn. If the player who drew it completes his hand, s/he earns a one Fan yaku. If that player does not complete the hand with that tile, and discards it, and someone else goes Out on that tile, then that player earns the yaku.
Going Out on a loose tile ("Rinchan Kaihou") -- Since there are no Flowers in Japanese Mah-Jongg, the only time loose tiles are taken is when a player melds a Kong (Kan). If the player melds a Kong, takes a loose tile, and goes Out on the loose tile, the player earns a one Fan yaku.
Some players apply an optional rule similar to the Haitei rule; the yaku may also apply if the player who drew the loose tile discards it (or any tile from the hand after drawing a loose tile), and someone else can go Out on it (that discard is considered a loose tile, even if it is not the exact tile that the player took from the back of the Dead Wall -- it's kind of like an "indirect loose tile"). But in Shanghai: Dynasty, only the picker of the loose tile is awarded the Rinchan Kaihou yaku.
In the case of a thrown tile resulting in a Kong which leads to a Rinchan Kaihou, the thrower of the Kong tile (which set in motion the chain of events leading to the Rinchan Kaihou win) pays for all.
Tsumo on concealed hand -- You get a one Fan yaku for self-picking the final tile of a completely concealed hand, in addition to any other yaku that the hand might earn.
Reach ("Riichi") -- Going Out after declaring Reach earns a one Fan yaku in addition to any other yaku that the hand might earn.
One shot ("Ippatsu") -- If a player declares Reach and then, within one turn around the table, goes Out (either by discard or by self-pick), the player earns a one Fan yaku. In the case of Ippatsu, the player would get one Fan for Reach and another fan for Ippatsu. Of course, this yaku is earned only if the Ippatsu option is selected in the game options.
Robbing the kong ("Chan kan") -- Permitted at the moment that a player is promoting an exposed pung to a kong, and only when doing so completes the hand. Considered win by discard. Robbing a concealed kong is usually not permitted (some tables permit it to complete a yakuman hand - some tables permit it only to complete kokushimusou specifically - and the move is only permissible at the moment the ankan is being melded).
Earthly Hand ("Chiho") -- You go Out by self-pick on your first deal, within the first turn around the table.
Going Out on a discard within the first deal ("Renho") -- Any player except the dealer takes a discard within the first turn around the table and goes Out.
Heavenly Gates with Nine Chances -- If a player is holding "Heavenly Gates / Nine Gates" (Chuurenpooto) -- and goes Out waiting for the duplicate tile (there are nine ways to win in this situation).
Four Concealed Pungs and Waiting on the Head (Suu Ankou Tanki) -- If a player has Four Concealed Pungs (Suu ankou) -- and goes Out waiting for the one tile to complete the pair ("atama" or "head").
When a player goes Out, Shanghai: Dynasty examines the hand for all possible yaku and awards them all automatically. It's possible to get multiple yaku for different combinations and situations. It's even possible to get combinations that give you Triple Yakuman and more. For example, you might get something like:
All Winds & Dragons -- Yakuman
Big Three Dragons -- Yakuman
Waiting for the pair -- Double Yakuman
Total = Quadruple Yakuman
The ultimate score is Yakuman Times Six (Four Concealed Kongs (All Winds) with a dragon, winning by waiting for the dragon's mate).
YAKU TILE COMBINATIONS
Yaku are not exclusive, but rather cumulative. A hand is scored by adding up every possible yaku that may apply to that hand.
Note: if a combination is labeled simply "Exposed," then the hand scores the same exposed or concealed (it is understood that any exposed hand is allowed to be concealed). If a combination is labeled simply "Concealed," then it is not allowed to expose that combination (if exposed, it does not score the yaku).
Pung of Own wind or Prevailing wind -- and any other groupings to make a complete hand.
Pung of any dragon -- and any other groupings to make a complete hand.
To win this special hand, your hand must have no Pung, only Chow. The pair must not be a scoring pair -- it cannot be dragons, nor your Own Wind, nor the Prevailing Wind. "Pin Huu" is Chinese for "No Points" -- so the player gets the yaku for having a hand that is so worthless that it's worth something! The last tile you take to win the hand must not be a one-chance -- the player must need more than one possible tile to go Out; it must not be a middle tile of a Chow, and must not be the other-end tile of a terminal Chow; and must not be a tile to complete a pair (or "head"). Some players require the last tile to be self-picked, but in Shanghai: Dynasty this is not a strict rule. If Pinfu is self-picked, the player gets the extra fan (yaku) for Tsumo On Concealed Hand but does NOT get the extra 2 points for self-pick. Player also gets the Tanyao bonus on this hand if it's all Simples.
No ones or nines, no Winds or Dragons.
Two same-number Chows in any one suit. Above, how Iipeikou would look in the hand.
Hand contains same-number Chii (Chow) in all 3 suits.
Three sequential Chows (1-2-3, 4-5-6, and 7-8-9) in one suit.
A "Terminal Chow" is a Chow (Chii) with a one or a nine in it. If all-terminals-and-honors hand has no Chows, it does not earn "Chanta" but rather "Honroutou."
To earn this yaku, the three Pungs must be completely concealed in the hand at the time of going out. Must go out by making the pair or the fourth grouping (Pung or Chow).
Same-number Chows (Chii) all in the same suit. Effectively the same as "Sanrenko" (Three Sequential Pungs in One Suit), which scores the same, if concealed (player is scored only for the one yaku, not both). But if one of the Chows is melded, then obviously the hand cannot be regarded as Sequential Pungs.
If concealed, an All Pung hand also (by definition) earns two more Fan for Sananko (Three Concealed Pungs).
Pungs of two dragons, and a pair of the third dragon.
Three kongs of anything.
You would also earn two more Fan for having Toi-Toi (All Pung) with this combination.
Could also be thought of as three identical Chows in one suit (Iisou sanjun), if concealed -- but player gets scored only for one of the two (San renkou or Iisou sanjun).
Seven different pairs of anything. Two identical pairs not permitted (and certainly no konging of any kind is permitted).
Same-number Pungs in all three suits.
Two identical Chows in one suit, and a different two identical Chows in a second suit.
One suit, plus Winds and/or Dragons.
Each grouping in this hand has a one or a nine in it somewhere.
Every tile in the hand is from the same suit (no Winds or Dragons).
Pungs of Ones and Nines, plus 2-3-4-5-6-7-8 and any one tile, all the same suit.
In the Japanese game, the winner's Own wind is allowed to be either a Pung or the Pair (Head).
Pungs of all of the Dragons.
Four kongs and a pair.
The Green Dragons are optional -- they can be used for a Pung or a Pair, or not be used at all.
Pungs and a pair of ones and nines only (kongs allowed).
Pungs and a pair of Winds and Dragons (kongs allowed).
Above, shown as it would look in the hand. One of each of the ones and nines, plus one of each Wind and Dragon, and a duplicate of any tile in the hand.
To qualify for this hand, the player cannot take a discard to complete a Pung (because taking the discard to complete the Pung causes that Pung to be considered Exposed). The player would have to self-pick the final Pung tile, else go out waiting for the Head (which would be worth Double Yakuman -- Suu Ankou Tanki).
Pairs of twos through eights in one suit.
Kongs are allowed too -- they do not disqualify the hand from earning the yaku.
Only valid on the initial deal, and only for dealer's initial hand. Hand has thirteen unrelated tiles (odd Honors or Terminals, for instance, and/or numbers separated by 2 or more numbers, like 1-4-7 or 2-5-8 or 3-6-9; 1-4-8, 1-5-8, or 1-5-9 for example; nothing in the hand can be easily turned into a Chow or Pung). Hand is total garbage, in other words, which will be nearly impossible to turn into a winning hand of Pungs and Chows. The 14th tile may match any tile in the hand.
Pungs (and/or kongs) of all four Winds and a pair of anything.
This FAQ was written mainly to answer the Frequently Asked Question, "Why wouldn't the computer let me declare mahjong in my Japanese majan program?" But of course other questions about Japanese majan also come up - like these from the the Q&A bulletin board...
>From: Willems, David - DWillems%MultiPlan,com
>Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 7:52 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>
>In the Japanese Modern Rules of mahjong I have a question about the Dealer's Counter (the 100 point stick that goes up by one every time the Dealer wins a round). When a non-dealer wins, do they get the bonus (300 pts per stick), or is it just reset to zero - and the deal is passed? When it is a drawn hand (and the dealer has tenpai) or a null hand, does the dealer get the counter points? Does the count stay the same or go up by one for the next hand?
>Also, in terms of the Yakitori penalty, is there a standard penalty amount or is it decided by the players ahead of time?
>Thanks!
>David
>
>From: Willems, David
>Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 7:59 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>
>Sorry, an addendum to my last question about the Dealer's Counter. Most rules state that after the dealer repeats 5 times, a 2 Yaku hand is required in order to go out. Is this for the dealer only or for the whole table? Do counters keep being added beyond this or is there a limit?
>Thanks again,
>David
Ohayo gozaimasu, David. You wrote:
When a non-dealer wins, do they get the bonus (300 pts per stick)
Hai. Yes.
When it is a drawn hand (and the dealer has tenpai) or a null hand, does the dealer get the counter points?
Iiye. No.
Does the count stay the same or go up by one for the next hand?
Rules may vary. My group adds one.
in terms of the Yakitori penalty, is there a standard penalty amount or is it decided by the players ahead of time?
I imagine it's a house rule. My group uses 1500 points.
after the dealer repeats 5 times, a 2 Yaku hand is required in order to go out.
Chigau. The hand can have one or two yaku (or even more) - the minimum fan goes up from 1 to 2. Don't get yaku and fan confused.
Is this for the dealer only or for the whole table?
Nothing applies solely to the dealer and nobody else.
Do counters keep being added beyond this or is there a limit?
Keep adding.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper (トム·スローパー)
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
January 9, 2007
>From: Willems, David
>Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 12:22 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Hello Tom,
>Thank you for the quick reply! One more question for Modern Japanese Mahjong. If someone scores a limit (Yakuman) hand, would they still get points collected on top of it for someone else's Reach declaration, or Dealer Counters? Or is this limit considered "the limit"?
>Thanks,
>David
Hi David,
Yes, the winner would take the riichi chip(s) and collect for dealer markers.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper (トム·スローパー)
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
January 9, 2007
>From: Willems, David = DWillems♦MultiPlan.com
>Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:41 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>In Modern Japanese Mahjong, what would be the strategy in claiming a 4th kong (which aborts the game - assuming other players have made kongs)? Would it simply be to claim points if you were in tenpai?
>Also, in terms of the 4th kong, when does the game count as having ended? Does the player making the kong discard? Can someone else claim this discard?
>In an aborted/drawn game do the reach points carry over to the next round or do they just not count?
>One more, do fans from Doras count to meet the 2 fan minimum if the dealer has been the dealer for more than 5 rounds? Or just fans created from Yaku?
>Sorry for the deluge of questions!
>Thanks,
>David
Hi David, you asked:
what would be the strategy in claiming a 4th kong (which aborts the game - assuming other players have made kongs)? Would it simply be to claim points if you were in tenpai?
I have no idea why anyone would make a 4th kong - the situation has never come up, and I've never thought about it. Maybe it could be a defensive move to stop a game that was bound to be lost otherwise. But if it's at that point in the game, the player who makes a kong risks giving someone else an opportunity to win by robbing the kong, so I don't see a particular advantage in doing it.
Also, in terms of the 4th kong, when does the game count as having ended? Does the player making the kong discard?
Probably. I don't know. The situation has never come up, and my friends aren't good at explaining, and there's no really comprehensive description in English anywhere.
Can someone else claim this discard?
I assume so - it effectively becomes the haitei (the last tile of the hand).
In an aborted/drawn game do the reach points carry over to the next round or do they just not count?
They carry over. The riichi stick goes to the right corner of the dealer (where dealer markers are displayed).
do fans from Doras count to meet the 2 fan minimum
No. Never. The dora doubles are applied only after winning based on yaku.Dora NEVER count as yaku. Period.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper (トム·スローパー)
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
January 10, 2007
>From: "Tina Christensen" =tina♠mahjong.dk
>To: "Tom Sloper" =tomster♠sloperama.com
>Cc: DWillems♠MultiPlan.com
>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 3:33 AM
>Subject: Q&A board, Modern Japanese Mahjong
>
>> Hi Tom and David,
>>
>> I saw the discussion about the fourth kong in Modern Japanese mahjong. I
>> can add a few comments to David's questions:
>>
>> What would be the strategy in claiming a 4th kong?
>> - If you already have three, the strategy is obviously to make the
>> Four Kongs yakuman. If the four kongs belong to the same player, the game
>> continues (and no-one can make further kongs).
>> - Otherwise the move is defensive. If another player has three kongs or
>> for other reasons look very dangerous, it can be very wise to go for
>> nagare (aborted game).
>> - Tom said that you give another player a chance to go out by robbing a
>> kong. That's not necessarily true. Depends how you claim the kong. If you
>> simply claim a discard, there is no such danger. If you extend a melded
>> kong, that might indeed be dangerous. If you declare a concealed kong, it
>> can only be robbed for a yakuman (you would usually be able to tell if
>> that danger currently exists).
>>
>> Does the player making the kong discard?
>> - A few years back we (Mahjong Denmark) did some internet research on
>> this. Some say that the game ends immediately when the kong is declared
>> (no replacement tile is drawn, and no discard is made). Others say that
>> nagare occurs if no-one claims the discard after the kong. We play by the
>> latter rule. In this case you might be lucky to make mahjong on the kong
>> replacement tile (this can also be considered a defensive move), but you'd
>> better be sitting with a safe discard in the likely case you don't go out.
>>
>> Can someone else claim this discard?
>> - Yes. But there is no special (e.g. haitei) yaku for claiming that tile.
>> The player would need an ordinary yaku like always.
>>
>> Tina
>>
>> PS
>> When I get some spare time again (i.e. when the European Championship 2007
>> is over), I think it is time I translated the Mahjong Denmark Riichi
>> booklet. It is quite comprehensive, but currently only available in
>> Danish. Until then, our summary sheet might be helpful though. It covers
>> many of the special cases that exist in Riichi, but it is of course in
>> some sense our house rules, because people do play this game with
>> variations. http://mahjong.dk/filer/riichisheet.pdf
>>
>> --
>> Tina Christensen
>> tina♠mahjong.dk
>> http://oemc.mahjong.dk/
>> http://uk.mahjong.dk/
>From: "Willems, David" =DWillems♠MultiPlan.com
>To: tina♠mahjong.dk; "Tom Sloper" =tomster♠sloperama.com
>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:37 AM
>Subject: RE: Q&A board, Modern Japanese Mahjong
>Thank you both so much! This game is so endlessly fascinating.
>Hopefully someday there will be a comprehensive rulebook in English
>including variations (ari/nashi - etc). But for now - with the help of
>folks like you - and the "copy and paste" button, I feel like I'm
>getting a better understanding!
>Thanks again,
>David
Great, thanks Tina! Definitely looking forward to seeing a translation of the Mahjong Denmark Riichi booklet. I'll add a link to the summary sheet in FAQ 4b. Cheers!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper (湯姆·斯洛珀)
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
January 11, 2007
>From: Willems, David - DWillems♦MultiPlan.com
>To: Tom Sloper
>Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 12:04 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Hello Tom,
>One more question about the Dealer Counter in Modern Japanese Mahjong. If the wall is exhausted and the dealer is in no-ten, the deal the passes to the next person. If the previous dealer has been in that position for more than one round, does the new dealer then "inherit" all of counters from the previous dealer - and add one - until someone finally goes out? Are all the unclaimed "Reach" points (if any) passed along as well until someone goes out?
>Thanks,
>David
Hi David, you asked:
does the new dealer then "inherit" all of counters from the previous dealer - and add one - until someone finally goes out?
Yes. The markers are only indicators, not necessarily money to be paid by the dealer. So the old dealer puts his markers back in his drawer, and the new dealer puts up markers from his drawer.
Are all the unclaimed "Reach" points (if any) passed along as well until someone goes out?
Yes. Those chips belonged originally to the players who declared riichi and will go to the eventual winner.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper (湯姆·斯洛珀)
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
Martin Luther King Jr. Day (Jan. 15), 2007
Can one not only have one's cake, but eat it too? (Japanese riichi/dora majan)
From: "Richard W Emrich"
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: Mah-Jongg Q A
> My mah-jongg question or comment is:
> At our weekly Japanese MJ game, one player went Ron with 7 pairs (we were
> taught to call it Niko-Niko). With his 7 pairs, he had 2x1 crack, 2x2
> crack & 2x3 crack. (2 identical chows or Iipeikou) Can he claim a Fan for
> Iipeikou as well as 2 Fan for the 7 pair ?
> I have not had much exposure to the 'correct' terms of Mah-jongg so I hope
> this is OK
> Thanks
> Richard W. Emrich
> Chino Hills, CA
中&西: Hi Richard,
Let me draw you a picture to show you why the answer is no.
This shows "2 sets and 4 pairs." There's no such hand structure! You can only make "4 sets and 1 pair" or "7 pairs" or "12 singles and 1 pair" (kokushimusou).
The answer is no. Those 6 tiles are either 2 chows OR 3 pairs - they cannot be both at the same time. And as you can see by the illustration above, the 2 chows option is not a valid option. They can only be 3 pairs in this case.
I think I'll tack this onto FAQ 20.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper / トム·スローパー
/
湯姆 斯洛珀 /
탐 슬로퍼
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
January 25, 2008
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Available at bookstores, BN.com, and Amazon.com.
Name = Steve Sera
Email = kurumayasan-usaⒶhotmail.com (copy and paste this into your email program and change Ⓐ to the @ symbol)
Posted = March 11, 2008
Service offered:
Do you live in the Los Angeles area and own a Japanese automatic mah-jongg table? Steve Sera is a highly skilled and experienced mechanic, has spare parts for many table models, and even better, he makes house calls! Email him and tell him Tom Sloper sent you.
Question about Japanese scoring
>From: Marissa Vincenti
>Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 7:55 PM
>Subject: riichi scoring question
>Hi, Tom!
>I need a clarification about scoring. In our game, my friend was in tenpai with a "hon iisou" hand that was concealed, but she won on a discard. Because the entire hand was concealed before she won on the discarded tile, she thought she should get 3 yaku for a concealed hand. I thought she should get only 2 for an exposed hand, since she won by discard. Could you clarify this? I can't remember what unit the tile completed--a pon, pair or chi--would that make a difference? If the winning tile completed a pon, then we would technically score that pon as "exposed," right? So the hand could not be "concealed."
>Help!
>Marissa
Hi Marissa,
Long time no see! (^_^) You wrote:
Because the entire hand was concealed before she won on the discarded tile, she thought she should get 3 yaku for a concealed hand. I thought she should get only 2 for an exposed hand, since she won by discard.
The hand counts as concealed because she had no exposures prior to winning on the discard. She's right - she gets 3 fan (not 3 yaku).
I can't remember what unit the tile completed--a pon, pair or chi--would that make a difference? If the winning tile completed a pon, then we would technically score that pon as "exposed," right?
Right.
So the hand could not be "concealed."
Wrong. Read this, from the now-discontinued Activision game Shanghai: Second Dynasty, with new edits by me (in italics):
HOW JAPANESE SCORING WORKS
The following points apply to regular Mah-Jongg hands that add up to 5 fan or less.
Going Out, Concealed, on a discard - 30 base points
After arriving at total points, if result is not divisible by ten (except in case
of 25 points for 7 Pairs), then round UP to the nearest multiple of ten. Add up the fan, then look up the score in the appropriate chart.
Scoring Chart -- Dealer
Going Out on 7 Pairs - 25 points (and add no other points)
Going Out any other way - 20 base points
After base points, add more points as appropriate:
Going Out on Self-Pick - 2 points
One-Chance - 2 points
Pung/Simples, Exposed - 2 points
Pung/Simples, Concealed - 4 points
Pung Honor/Term, Exposed - 4 points
Pung Honor/Term, Concealed - 8 points
Kan/Simples, Exposed - 8 points
Kan/Simples, Concealed - 16 points
Kan Honor/Term, Exposed - 16 points
Kan Honor/Term, Concealed - 32 points
Pair of Dragons - 2 points
Pair Own or Prevailing Wind - 2 points
Scoring Chart -- Non-Dealer
An important fine detail: when you go Out on someone's discard, the grouping completed by the discard is considered to be exposed (for point-scoring purposes). The hand itself, however, is still regarded as concealed, if no melds were made prior to going Out.
And that "important fine detail" is precisely what you needed to know, Marissa.
Oh - and about the fan / yaku thing. Hon iisou is a yaku that's worth 3 fan when concealed. So a yaku is a "scoring element" (an aspect of the hand or the method of winning that earns one or more score-doublers). And a fan is a "score-doubler." You and your group need to un-learn the terminology you had been using, so you can use it correctly going forward - but you all sound really smart to me, so it should be no problem.
Now get back in there and ganbatte kudasai!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper / トム·スローパー
/
湯姆 斯洛珀 / 탐 슬로퍼
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 23, 2008
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West. Available at bookstores, BN.com, and Amazon.com.
Correcting an oversight - scoring at Mangan and above
Dateline March 19, 2009. Bombay (Mumbai), India. I've come to realize that I neglected to include herein the all-important chart containing information about how to score above Mangan! So to continue adding stuff from the Shanghai: Dynasty manual:
In the Tsumo section of the Non-Dealer chart [above], the Dealer and 2 non-Dealers will pay the winner. The top number is the non-Dealer payment amount; the bottom number is the Dealer payment amount. In the Ron section, the number indicates how many points the thrower pays the winner.
The entire 5-Fan row, half of the 4-Fan row, and one square of the 3-Fan row, is a "Limit" (Mangan) zone on the chart (the shaded area). You may notice that at 30 points and 4 Fan, the payment is nearly the same as if the winner had gotten "Mangan" (Limit). These special "close enough" scores are highlighted in a lighter shade of gray on the chart above; Shanghai: Second Dynasty follows the standard practice in rounding these scores up. Since 7700 or 7900 is so close to 8000, it is simply called Mangan and the two non-dealers pay the limit (4000 points). Similarly, if a dealer scores 11,600, that is regarded as being Mangan ("Limit").
But Mangan is not, truly, the Limit. It is possible to score even higher than that...
Scoring Chart -- Limit Hands
If the winner gets more than 5 Fan, the following chart is used (points for going Out and for tile combinations are disregarded-only the Fan count is important above Mangan).
Haneman is one and a half times Mangan. Baiman is Mangan times two. Sanbaiman is triple Mangan. Yakuman is quadruple Mangan.
Just as points are no longer counted above Mangan, so too are Fan no longer counted above Yakuman. Players are not awarded "Yakuman + 3 Fan," for instance.
Question about Japanese scoring, part B (for Beer&Ramen)
>From: Biiruramen
>Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:10 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Thanks, you just answered several of my questions in your response to Marissa's question. One thing I am not quite sure about is scoring for a pinfu (or peace, or no-points) hand in riichi mahjong. The scoring chart you showed makes sense to me, because a pinfu hand gets 20 base points, you get 1 yaku for the hand, plus 2 extra fan for winning, which is 20 X 2 X 2 X 2, and if you are a non-dealer and go ron, the discarder pays 4 times this amount rounded up, which is 700, and the chart shows that. However, the scoring chart on Jenn and Garth's Reach Mahjong website has a "N/A" for a 20 base point hand with 3 Hand Points (Hand Points = Fan) for both dealer and non-dealer. And the scoring chart in the "Complete Reach Mahjong Online Rulebook" also shows a blank for a 20 base point hand, which would have to be the pinfu hand, right? Could you explain the "N/A"? They don't reply to my emails :( And doomo for the title and isbn # of the Kagimoto book.
Hi Beer/Ramen, you wrote:
One thing I am not quite sure about is scoring for a pinfu
I left the following out of yesterday's response to Marissa, since it went too far beyond what she was asking about:
There are two special cases in scoring -- Pin-Huu (Japanese: "Pinfu") with Tsumo (self-pick) and Chii Toitsu (Seven Pairs).
Pinfu - The Tsumo win would normally be worth 2 points, but "Pinfu" literally means "no points." You get a Fan for Pin-Huu anyway, so the Tsumo points are not awarded when you get Pinfu.
Chii Toitsu - Player earns the 25 base points only - no additional Tsumo points (and no points for Dragon or Wind pairs). Use the special 25-point column in the chart.
So. When your hand is pinfu, it's always concealed (you can't claim pinfu as a yaku if you've made any exposed chows). So now it's just a question of whether you win by discard (ron) or by self-pick (tsumo).
Ron - you get 30 points and 3 fan - 1 fan for pinfu + 2 fan for going out.
Tsumo - you get 20 points and 4 fan: 1 fan for concealed self-pick + 1 fan for pinfu + 2 fan for going Out.
(or peace
Ah. You've been on Jenn's site, then. (^_^) Ryan Morris calls pinfu "Flat Hand."
the scoring chart on Jenn and Garth's Reach Mahjong website has a "N/A" for a 20 base point hand with 3 Hand Points (Hand Points = Fan) for both dealer and non-dealer. And the scoring chart in the "Complete Reach Mahjong Online Rulebook" also shows a blank for a 20 base point hand, which would have to be the pinfu hand, right? Could you explain the "N/A"?
I just looked at the scoring chart of the European Mahjong Association, and they don't have N/A in the 20pts/3fan cell. And Ryan Morris' scoring chart doesn't either - same for Wei-Hwa Huang's chart. But Alan Kwan's scoring chart shows a blank in the 20pts/3fan cell, like Jenn & Garthe's.
As you can see by the little discussion above, you can get 20pts/4fan OR 30pts/3fan, but (at least with pinfu anyway), never 20pts/3fan. I guess the reason for blanking that cell on the chart is that there's no way to get 20pts/3fan. And if that's true (I haven't analyzed it that thoroughly to say for sure that it is), then the question isn't why Alan Kwan and Jenn & Garthe blank out the cell, but rather why others don't.
And doomo for the title and isbn # of the Kagimoto book.
Dou itashimashite. If you get the book, I hope it helps you.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper / トム·スローパー
/
湯姆 斯洛珀 / 탐 슬로퍼
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 24, 2008
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West. Available at bookstores, BN.com, and Amazon.com.
Question about Japanese scoring, part C (C for "Christensen")
From: "Tina Christensen"
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:44 AM
Subject: Q&A board, pinfu scoring
> Question about Japanese scoring, part B (B for "Beer&Ramen")
>
> Tom answered:
> "I just looked at the scoring chart of the European Mahjong Association,
> and they don't have N/A in the 20pts/3fan cell. And Ryan Morris' scoring
> chart doesn't either - same for Wei-Hwa Huang's chart. But Alan Kwan's
> scoring chart shows a blank in the 20pts/3fan cell, like Jenn & Garthe's."
>
> Well, actually we all agree, but there is one important difference in
> scoring terminology. As Ryan Morris, EMA doesn't add "two fan for going
> out". You'll see a 1 fan column in our charts, which wouldn't be possible
> if you always add "two fan for going out". So in the EMA chart the "1 fan
> column" is equivalent to the "3 fan column" on Jenn's site. Terribly
> confusing, I know. We had Jenn as an advisor when we made the EMA rule
> booklet, but she didn't comment this.
>
> The actual points awarded are the same off course, and in reality (in the
> calculations behind the tables) we do also add those "two fan for going
> out", but since we don't expect people to do the actual doubling of base
> scores and rounding off, but rather we expect them to use the look-up
> tables, the "two fan for going out" are ignored to simplify things. I
> thought that was the standard, actually, but since Jenn has it on her
> site, I don't know?
> Tina
> --
> Tina Christensen
> tina中mahjong.dk
DOH! It's forehead-slapping time. In checking those other charts, I looked only at the one cell, without paying any attention to the numbers contained in those or neighboring cells. It's been so long since I actually used the Shanghai: Second Dynasty chart, I forgot. When looking up a score on the chart one only counts the yaku-based fan (ignoring the fan for going out) to find the appropriate cell.
It never occurred to me that there were different charts. So before using a chart, the player needs to be aware of whether the chart includes or excludes the 2 fan for going out. Jenn says on her site, about her charts (note: Jenn uses the term "hand point" or "HP" rather than fan):
These charts include the 2 HP bonus for winning a hand. Modern charts often omit these two hand points and count 3 HP as 1 HP, starting with the one that was earned. This method works exactly the same, but requires only 1 HP to win, rather than 3 HP.
So, when using a non-dealer chart to score the pinfu example I cited yesterday:
Jenn's chart:
The Shanghai and EMA charts:
So this lays to rest the question from "Beer/Ramen" as to why some charts show "N/A" in certain cells - when you allow for the difference in methodology for using the charts, you see that they are actually consistent with one another.
May the tiles be with us all.
Tom Sloper / トム·スローパー
/
湯姆 斯洛珀 / 탐 슬로퍼
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 25, 2008
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West. Available at bookstores, BN.com, and Amazon.com.
Japanese score conversion
>From: Eric
>Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:51 AM
>Subject: Japanese Ranking System
>I noticed in certain games and shows, that the Japanese use a scoring method that looks similar to golf after a session. The numbers look like +33, or -5, or the like. I have scoured the net over and over for a source or method for how this scoring works, but all I've managed to find out was it had something to do with the number 30,000. Do you know what this scoring is, and how it works?
>Thanks in advance.
Hi Eric,
Oh! You're asking about the scoring. Here I thought you were going to ask about the Japanese ranking system... \(^_^)/
I'm surprised this information wasn't in Ryan Morris' description or in the European Mahjong Association's description...?
Japanese majan being a gambling game, there's a score conversion that has to happen after a game has ended. Each player starts with 25,000 points' worth of chips (sticks). The goal is to finish the game with more than 30,000 points to achieve the required point spread used by most players. At the end of the game...
Oh wait, I just realized I've already written all this. Here's what I wrote about this in the Help menu for Shanghai Second Dynasty (the computer game I designed and produced when I worked at Activision):
At the end of the game, players are ranked First, Second, Third, and Last. Also at the end of the game, the score (until now measured in thousands of points) is converted into smaller units. Mainly this is done so that if the players are gambling, they know how much to pay one another. Japanese players customarily see the endgame score displayed in one- or two-digit numbers.
Players start the game with a bank of 25,000 points. At the end of the game, players are ideally supposed to attain a goal or target of 30,000 points. Shanghai: Second Dynasty allows you to vary the opening stake anywhere from 25,000 up to 30,000 (in 1,000 point increments) -- this example assumes your opening stake is 25,000. The goal amount is always 30,000.
1. Players' final scores are compared with the goal of 30,000 and it is determined how far off the mark they are. For example, if a player winds up with 35,000, then he's 5,000 ahead; if a player winds up with 24,000, then he's minus 6,000.
2. The player with the highest score is awarded the difference between the start points and goal for each player around the table (20,000 is added to his score).
3. Each player's score is divided by 1,000. If a score is not evenly divisible by 1,000 then the score has to be rounded first. If the "fraction of 1,000" is 500 or more, round up. If 400 or less, round down. For example, if a player had end score of 35,000 and then was awarded 20,000, his final score is +25 (20,000 winnings added to the amount of points over 30,000).
4. Now the player's final scores are compared to determine who is the Top player, who is 2nd, who is 3rd, and who is Last.
5. If a point spread ("uma") is used, it is calculated here. Shanghai: Second Dynasty's default point spread is 0-0, so no score difference is the usual result. But let's say you choose to use a point spread of 5-10. Add ten points to the Top player's score. Add five points to the 2nd player's score. Subtract five points from the 3rd player's score. Subtract ten points from the Last player's score.
6. When players are gambling, then multiply the final score (after calculating the point spread, if you so choose) times the previously-agreed monetary unit (usually either ¥100 or ¥1,000) to arrive at the payment amount. In the following example, we assume ¥100 payment. NOTE that in Shanghai: Second Dynasty, we do not use the bottom row of this chart (it is included in order to provide a complete understanding of how the Japanese scoring works in the real world).
The entire Shanghai Second Dynasty help file used to be hosted at http://www.mahjongnews.com, but I don't know if it still is.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
トム·スローパー
/
湯姆 斯洛珀 / 탐 슬로퍼
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
Le 14 Juillet (Bastille Day), 2008
How do 2 people win in Japanese majan?
>From: Paola B
>Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:53 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>In riichi mahjong, if a tile can be claimed by more than one player for a mahjong, what happens? Is the winning split? First person to the right of the person who's discarding gets the tile?
>Thanks!
>Paola
Konnichiwa Paola,
When two people claim ron on a discard in Japanese riichi majan, the discarder pays them both.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
August 21, 2009
Dark times in Japan
Dark times in Japan
Even so, natsukashii!
I wish I was there.
Tom Sloper
March 30, 2011
Why Won't The Computer Let Me Claim Mahjong?
>From: Joshua R
>Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:56 AM
>Subject: Riichi Mahjong, How would one NOT be able to call win after declaring Riichi?
>In the situation above, I am East. It is South 1st Round.
>I declared Riichi, waiting on a two-sided wait for 1 Man and 4 Man. The hand is fully concealed, and I have Dora 2 at minimum (Red 5 Pin, as well as 4 Pin). The 4 Man from South was the last discard, as well as a tile I would need to win. As far as I'm aware, had I been able to win off the 4 Man, I would have have Riichi, Haitei, Pinfu, Dora 2. Is there a rule that could potentially be in place that could prevent me from winning this specific hand?
>Thanks for your assistance!
>~JR
Konnichiwa, Joshua.
See FAQ 25 (there's a link above left). The most common reasons for a computer game preventing a win declaration are furiten and below-minimum score. In real life there would be nothing stopping you from making your play, but other players would see that you'd made a mistake, and would hit you with a chonbo penalty. Some computer games disallow that kind of play (and some computer games give the option of permitting chonbo mistakes).
In your case, there's a definite furiten.
You said you're waiting for a 2-way wait, 1M / 4M. I looked at the other player's discards to see if you had missed something in the most recent go-around, and then I looked at your own discards. Have a look at FAQ 25, then look again at your discards.
Tom Sloper
Creator of
the weekly Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs -- donations appreciated.
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, California, USA
August 26, 2014
Riichi questions
On Friday, July 31, 2020, 09:50:09 AM PDT, Thomas .C wrote:
riichi scoring
Hi Tom,
I'm still at it.. really enjoying Japanese Mahjong on the Nintendo Switch. You have an excellent Japanese Mahjong section on your site, which I will continue to study. Thank you!
Here are two separate games:
1. First game: Not sure what "All Run = 1 Han" means? I googled and searched your site.
2. Second game: When game ends with a draw, for those who are "Not fishing" = those that are not ready/not in tenpai -> Is it customary for these poor folks to be deducted 1000 points (1 han)? This is how this game is scored. Those that are in tenpai/ready - > no deduction is made.
3. General question: Does a Kong hand always need a pair to win? I searched your site and it said:
'kong is a special pung. The typical hand is "four groups and a pair."'
Does this mean "4 groups, including a pair? So essentially a pair is always needed for Mahjong?
Thank you so much! Tom
Konnichiwa, Tom.
Thanks to you, I've been playing Japanese Mah-Jongg on my Switch when I run out of things I want to do in Animal Crossing: New Horizons. Sorry that I still haven't figured out what was wrong with your previous issue.
You wrote:
Not sure what "All Run = 1 Han" means?
Whoever created the English localization for Japanese Mah-Jongg did not use standard English terminology. It's saying the hand is all chows (runs). In FAQ 25, you'll find this one under the name "No-Points, All Chow (Pinfu, Pin Huu, Pin Wu) - Concealed - 1 Fan."
When game ends with a draw, for those who are "Not fishing" = those that are not ready/not in tenpai -> Is it customary for these poor folks to be deducted 1000 points (1 han)?
It's customary for non-fishing (non-ready, noten) players to pay something to the fishing (ready, tenpai) players. You just made me realize there's nothing in FAQ 25 about the tenpai payment, so I'll add this conversation to FAQ 25's comments area. Read on! ...
Those that are in tenpai/ready - > no deduction is made.
No. The fishing players take payment from the non-fishing players. 3,000 points is the amount to be divided up. If there's one fishing player, the three others each pay 1,000. If there are two fishing players, each collects 1,500. If there are three fishing players, each collects 1,000 from the non-fisher. I confirmed this just now on Wikipedia (a page you should bookmark).
Does a Kong hand always need a pair to win? I searched your site and it said:
'kong is a special pung. The typical hand is "four groups and a pair."'
Does this mean "4 groups, including a pair? So essentially a pair is always needed for Mahjong?
Read FAQ 20. Four groups AND a pair means just that. You can in fact have four kongs and a pair (18 tiles total) in Asian forms of mah-jongg. FAQ 20 explains that. See also "All Kong (Suu kan tsu)" in FAQ 25.
And yes, although I'd never thought it through before you asked, I suppose a pair is "always" needed. See "Heavenly Gates, Nine Gates (Chuuren pooto)," and see "Unique Wonders, 13 Orphans, 13 Impossible (Koku shimusou)" - there is a pair in even those hands. "Thirteen Unrelated Tiles (Shiisan puutaa)" is a special case (it's not 14 tiles).
Y'all come back now, y'hear? Oh wait, wrong vernacular. I was doing a Japanese thing, so I should instead say: "Dewa mata!"
Play safely and stay healthy. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs -- donations appreciated.
July 31, 2020
Los Angeles, California, USA
Some related Japanese majan links:
Shanghai Dynasty manual © 1999 Activision
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