FAQ #22: Chinese Official Scoring Explained

FAQ #22. Chinese Official Scoring Explained

The most frequently asked questions about Chinese Official mah-jongg (Mahjong Competition Rules, or MCR, also called Guóbiāo Májiàng) concern the scoring. Especially, newcomers to this variant ask about which scoring patterns (fan) may or may not be combined. This FAQ assumes that the reader is already aware of the basics of Chinese Official scoring:

The winning hand must score a minimum of eight points, not including points for flowers;
when the hand is obtained by discard, discarder pays score total plus eight points, and non-discarders pay eight points;
When the hand is obtained by self-pick, all non-winners pay the winner the score total plus eight points.

There are other books besides those pictured above, in a variety of languages. See FAQ 3.

INCLUSIONS AND COMBINATIONS IN SCORING

When scoring a hand, points for numerous scoring elements (fan) may be added to arrive at the hand's final score. The rules permit some latitude in this matter, but the rules do prohibit including certain combinations of scoring elements.

Depending on which rulebook the player is using, some permissible and prohibited inclusions may be already noted and documented. Most books are woefully inadequate in providing complete information about what may and may not be included when adding points.

The term "set" is used herein to refer to a pung, chow, kong, or pair. In case it helps some readers understand the concept of "sets" in mah-jongg, consider: most mah-jongg hands are comprised of sets or groupings of tiles. (Exceptions: Thirteen Orphans and the two Knitted & Honors hands, which are comprised of particular single tiles rather than sets or groupings of tiles.)

Here's How It Works

When scoring a hand...

Step 1. The usual practice is to begin by deciding what is to be your main scoring element (usually the highest-scoring element), although it isn't strictly necessary to declare what your main scoring element is - it's just a starting point.

Step 2. Then combine any other scoring elements which are not inevitably included in that main scoring element. (Note: one way to look at it is to combine elements in decreasing numbers of sets. In practice, you can usually add any and all scoring elements that use all the sets, all the tiles, or four sets first, then add two- or three-set scoring elements. Lastly, you would add scoring elements based on concealment and/or how the winning tile had been obtained.)

Step 3. Be mindful of the "combine-just-once" principle (the "exclusionary rule"). Having combined sets to form your main scoring element, any sets not used in that main element may be combined only once, with no more than one set that has already been used to form the main element, to form additional scoring elements. The player is permitted to try differently ordering the combinations to achieve extra points, but it rarely works out that higher scores can be obtained by doing so. There are other prohibited combinations as well. Examples are given below.

In following the steps above, certain rules apply. The following is based on the Chinese-language book, CHINESE MAHJONG COMPETITION RULES ("CMCR"), published by People's Sports Publishing House in 1998 (ISBN 7-5009-1630-2/G - 1529). Pages 29-30.

10.1.5. Principles for Scoring the Hand
The scoring of a completed hand is based on the table of scoring elements provided in the rule book. When a player completes the hand, the player shall identify the primary scoring element first, then add other scoring elements that are not inevitably related to, or derived from, the primary scoring element or one another. In calculating the hand's score, the following principles must be observed.

10.1.5.1. Prohibition against implied inclusions
When a high-scoring pattern cannot be made without also making a lesser pattern, you cannot claim both the high-scoring pattern and the low-scoring pattern. Sometimes referred to as the "non-repeating principle" or the "non-implied principle."

10.1.5.2. Prohibition against separation
Once some sets have been combined to create a particular scoring element, you may not "separate" the tiles of those sets and re-organize them into other sets to form a different scoring element. Sometimes referred to as the "non-separation principle."

10.1.5.3. Prohibition against identical patterns
Once you've used a set to form a particular 2- or 3-set pattern, you can't use the same set to form an identical pattern with another set. Sometimes referred to as the "non-identical principle."

10.1.5.4. Freedom of choice principle
If a set can be used to form a low-scoring pattern or a high-scoring pattern, you are free to claim the higher-scoring pattern. Sometimes referred to as the "high-versus-low principle."

10.1.5.5. Prohibition against repetitive set usage ("combine-just-once") Once some sets have been combined for a scoring pattern, any other remaining sets in the hand may be combined only once with an already-scored set, when creating additional scoring patterns.
Sometimes referred to as the "assessment-once principle."
Note that this rule, in practice, appears to apply primarily (or only) to two- or three-set sequential-number-based scoring patterns, such as straights or "shifted" scoring patterns. (Much more on this below.)

Examples

10.1.5.1. Prohibition against implied inclusions. When a particular scoring combination cannot possibly be made without also including another (lesser, inevitable) scoring element, the lesser element is said to be "implied," thus it is not permitted to combine the two (to add extra points). For instance, the hand "All Even" cannot be made with chows or terminals or honors (it can only be made with pungs of even numbered suit tiles), therefore it is not permitted to combine the points for "All Even" and the points for "All Pungs" or "All Simples" or "No Honors. "All Even" is worth 24 points; the points for those other attributes are "implied" (already included) in the 24 points.

For another example, it would not be permitted to combine both "half flush" (also called "clean") and "one voided suit."

10.1.5.2. Prohibition against separation. If you have 111222333 in one suit, you can either call that three pungs or three chows. You can't claim points for calling it chows, then claim additional points for calling it pungs.

10.1.5.3. Prohibition against identical patterns. For instance, if you have 123B 456B 456B, you can't say that's two short straights (using the 123B twice to form two identical patterns).

Another example.

Last example.

10.1.5.4. Freedom of choice principle. For instance, if you have 123 456 789 all in one suit, it makes sense to claim Pure Straight (kwa leung in Chinese - Pure Dragon), rather than Short Straight. You can't have both, so claim the more valuable.

10.1.5.5. Prohibition against repetitive set usage ("combine-just-once"). While the above four principles are well understood and accepted by new players, this rule (which I used to call "the exclusionary rule") needs more in-depth explanation. Consider this Mixed Straight hand:

   234C 567C are combined to form a Short Straight. 234D can be combined with 234C to make a Mixed Double Chow. Then (according to this rule, which is controversial) the remaining 567D may be combined either with 234D to make a second Short Straight or with 567C to make a second Mixed Double Chow, for 3 points.

   234C 234D are combined to form Mixed Double Chow. 567C may be combined with 234C to form a Short Straight. Then the remaining 567D may be combined either with 567C to form a second Mixed Double Chow or with 234D to make a second Short Straight, for 3 points.

   234C 567C are combined to form Short Straight. 234D 567D are combined to form a second Short Straight. Because of the wording of the Combine-Just-Once rule, you might be challenged if you then try to use one already-used set with another already-used set to form a Mixed Double Chow; someone might deny you a 3rd point if you combined them this way. Thus it might be your best bet to go with A or B instead.

   Combine 234C and 234D to make Mixed Double Chow. Then combine 567C 567C to make Mixed Double Chow. Because of the wording of the Combine-Just-Once rule, you might be challenged if you then try to use one already-used set with another already-used set to form a Short Straight; someone might deny you a 3rd point if you combined them this way. Thus it might be your best bet to go with A or B instead. (Thanks to ithinc for pointing out this one.)

Scoring the above hand, you get All Chows (2) and All Simples (2), then you can add only three of these four: Mixed Double Chow (1), Mixed Double Chow (1), Short Straight (1), Short Straight (1). That makes only seven points - not enough to go out. You'll need to self-pick, go out on a unique wait, keep your hand concealed, or win on the last tile of its kind in order to get at least one more point to meet the minimum.

To recap: start by choosing your Primary Scoring Element, usually the highest-scoring element (often encompassing all the tiles or sets of the hand), as a starting point.

Then, build scoring patterns of ever-decreasing numbers of sets. First combine sets into larger combinations, and then build smaller combinations. When one or more scoring patterns can be made from all the sets in the hand, all the tiles in the hand, or four sets, do those first (as many as you can find, which do not violate 10.1.5.1; but note that some picky Chinese opponent or judge might put rule 10.1.5.5 into play).

Then, after making all-set and four-set combinations, make a three-set combination, if possible. Then create any one possible two-set combination using no more than one set used in the three-set combination.

When there are no three-set combinations in the hand, create one two-set combination. Then use an unused set together with one of the used sets to create a second combination. Then use the fourth set together with a set that has not already been used in two combinations.

If some scoring element that you make is decreed invalid by either a majority of your opponents or a judge, then just accept their ruling and move on. Mah-Jongg players must be good sports, else be shunned by other players. Don't let that happen to you!

In the past couple of years, I've gone back and forth numerous times on how to describe this process (especially regarding application of the exclusionary rule). The more I have learned (the more different translations and interpretations of the original Chinese rules I've heard or seen, and the more instances I experience at tournaments), the more I came to see that the wording of the rule ought to be changed to clarify the way the rule is used in practice:

Once two or three sets have been combined for a scoring pattern, any other sets in the hand may be combined with at most one of the already-scored sets, when creating additional two- or three-set patterns.

This (above) wording was, in my opinion, confirmed by the analysis done by Per Starbäck in May of 2008 (see http://starback.se/mj/beyond/). Then a conversation I had with Chinese mahjong authority "ithinc" in 2009 led me to refine it further (much to ithinc's disagreement; he interprets the rule more broadly (he disagreed with my interpretation that the rule applies only to two- or three-set patterns and also disagreed with the below wording as well) and would like to see the rule abolished altogether):

Once two or three numerical sets have been combined for a sequential-number-based scoring pattern, any other remaining numerical sets in the hand may be combined only once with an already-scored numerical set, when creating additional two- or three-set sequential-number-based scoring patterns, such as straights or "shifted" scoring patterns.

I had previously thought the rule could, in effect, only be applied to chows, but ithinc's arguments showed me that "shifted pung" patterns could also be subject to the rule, as it is applied in common practice.

An earlier controversy about the combine-just-once rule (10.1.5.5) is discussed in Column 229 and again in Column 255. The controversy was "resolved" in Column 259.
Other controversies are discussed in my MCR Errata.
2014: The official Mahjong Competition Rules were updated in 2014. Download latest version at http://www.mindmahjong.com/info/eshowinfo.asp?id=931.
2014: The "Primary" Competition Rules (in which "primary" means "for beginners") were also announced in 2014. Download the primary MCR primer at http://www.mindmahjong.com/info/eshowinfo.asp?id=936.
Chris Schumann has created an analysis of MCR hands and the frequency with which they may be made, at http://mahjong.wikidot.com/analysis:combinatorics.
2021: YouTuber Petr ("Northern Peacock") has posted a nice MCR Practicum of MCR problems - "interesting waitings with ready hands, getting ready when you're 1 step from tempai." It's a PDF, readable/downloadable on Google Drive.

Many thanks to: (1) Ryan Morris (photo above) for his help in understanding the combine-just-once principle before any translations existed,
and (2) to Cofa Tsui for his translation of section 10.1.5 of the CMCR. Go to www.iMahjong.com and click General Introduction > Archives > Topic #208. In his article, Cofa refutes wording that used to exist in this FAQ originally. Changes that have been made since then were made thanks to...
(3) Larsen Chung, who also translated section 10.1.5, on the Mah-Jongg Q&A Bulletin Board,
and thanks also to (4) "ithinc" who also contributed, and to Mr. Wang Yingfu of the World Mah-Jong Championship technical committee.

the Q+A Bulletin Board

How to score this, in light of the exclusionary rule in MCR?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, June 10, 2022, 11:24:09 AM EDT, sue z wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
How to score this in MCR
Tom-
I am learning MCR and trying to wrap my head around the exclusionary rule. How about this example?
234B 567B 234C 567C 88C
All Simples 2 pts
All chows 2 pts
Voided suit 1 pt
Mixed double chow 234B 234C 1 pt
Mixed double chow 567B 567C 1 pt
Short straight 234B 567B 1 pt
Short straight 234C 567C 1 pt nope exclusionary rule?
Single wait 8C 1 pt
Hand total 9 pts
If above is correct, instead could I score for both short straights and only 1 mixed double chow? No score difference but for my understanding.
Thanks,
Sue Z

Hi, Sue! There are four exclusionary rules. You didn't say which one you're thinking of. From FAQ 22:

10.1.5.1. Prohibition against implied inclusions
10.1.5.2. Prohibition against separation
10.1.5.3. Prohibition against identical patterns
10.1.5.5. Prohibition against repetitive set usage ("combine-just-once")

Those come straight from the original "green book" from the Chinese organizing committee. They correspond to rules 64(a), (b), (c), and (e) in my book.

At a glance, it appears you're concerned about 10.1.5.5, repetitive set usage, because you're claiming both two short straights and two mixed double chows. Let's dig in. Here's the hand you described:

FAQ 22 says this about the combine-just-once rule:

Once some sets have been combined for a scoring pattern, any other remaining sets in the hand may be combined only once with an already-scored set, when creating additional scoring patterns.
Sometimes referred to as the "assessment-once principle."
Note that this rule, in practice, appears to apply primarily (or only) to two- or three-set sequential-number-based scoring patterns, such as straights or "shifted" scoring patterns.

So, although you've combined 234B once with 567B for a short straight, you CAN also combine 234B with 234C for a mixed double chow. And the same for the 567B. So yes, you can score it 9 points, as you asked.
Play safely and stay healthy. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Friday, June 10, 2022
Rochester, New York, USA

Those tricky "knitted" thingies in MCR (CO)

>From: "Paula L
>To: mj
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:25:32 -0200
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:Is the Knitted tiles worth 12
>points in
>Chinese Official considered a chow set and are we allowed toclaim a
>discarded tile and meld the set?
>Psaltlang at yahoo

Hello Paula,
First, I gotta say, what's the deal with the timestamp on your email? It's dated last Christmas, yet I just received it now. Maybe somebody needs to adjust your computer's clock. May as well wait until tomorrow (given the early Daylight Savings Time bug). Anyway, as to your question. This is addressed in my upcoming book, by the way (don't hold your breath, it doesn't come out until June).

Is the Knitted tiles ... considered a chow set and are we allowed toclaim a
>discarded tile and meld the set?
Yes and no. A hand comprised of three knitted SETS (147 or 258, for example) IS considered a "special sort of chow" hand -- but special rules apply. A knitted set may NOT be melded. And neither may a knitted chow.

恭喜發財 - Happy Year of the Pig!

Which prohibition applies?

>From: Ray
>Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 11:33 PM
>Subject: Combining Waits
>Hi Tom,
>I managed to really confuse myself last night while trying out some low scoring Chow based fan combinations! You've probably guessed from recent emails that I sent you, that I'm trying to get to grips with the lower scoring fan so I can go out on "simpler" hands (in fact, for the very same reason you said...trying to increase my cheap wins!).
>I'm hoping you can clarify things...it's on a similar theme to the point raised by Tony a week or so ago, I suppose.
>I was looking at the single point wait fan (single, closed and edge). You've told me before that if, in your book, a fan is not shown as implied then they can be combined. None of these three wait fan show any others that they can't be combined with (there are no 'may not combine with' entries in the descriptions of each of the three fan).
>So I presume I can combine, for example, an Edge Wait with a Closed Wait. However, doesn't this hit the "Prohibition Against Separation" principle?
>If I was holding 1,2,2,3,4 only a 3 can complete this. A 3 will give 1,2,3 and 2,3,4. So, a single tile allows both the Edge Wait (the 1,2 waiting for the 3) and the Closed Wait (the 2,4 waiting for the 3). But it's the same 3 tile, so do I score both fan?
>A similar situation with 3,4,4,5. Drawing a 4 will complete a 3,5 Closed Wait to give 3,4,5 and the already held 4,4 pair; but the same drawn 4 can complete the pair too for a Single Wait with the already held 3,4,5.
>Even writing this confuses me! I'm sure it must be simple, can you clarify it, or have i managed to confuse you too? I know it's only a single point, but, hey, get all the points where you can on low scoring combinations! 1 more point may be all that's needed to go out.
>Regards
>Ray H

Hi, Ray.
The way the prohibitions are stated (on page 139 and in FAQ 22) don't necessarily make it clear which one prohibits using a single tile for two different fan. But how about this. Consider the Freedom of Choice principle: you can use that tile to form one low-scoring pattern or another low-scoring pattern. You're free to choose which one you want to call it.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper

Creator of these Mah-Jongg FAQs -- donations appreciated.
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, California, USA
November 8, 2012

Nine Gates and Pure Straight

>From: Jonathan Coveney (via Twitter)
>Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 7:33 AM
>Subject: Jonathan Coveney (@jco) mentioned you on Twitter!
>Tom Sloper,
>You were mentioned in a Tweet! Tom Sloper
>Jonathan Coveney
>@jco
> Follow Follow
>@tomsloper read the green book and your errata... How can nine gates also be a pure straight? Isn't the pure straight implied by nine gates? - 02:25 PM - 24 Mar 15
>Jonathan Coveney
>@jco
> Follow Follow
>@tomsloper (I know this hand is incredibly rare I'm more just trying to figure out the concept behind the pure straight being allowed on it)
> 02:33 PM - 24 Mar 15
> Reply to @jco Retweet Favorite

Hi, Jonathan.
Wow, the green book and my errata. That was a long time ago (before my book was released). I had to do some involved digging to locate that errata file you mentioned. But I found it. Why still be using out-of-date sources like the green book when newer sources of information are available? The official rules were updated in 2014, and can be downloaded at http://www.mindmahjong.com/info/eshowinfo.asp?id=931. (Don't include the dot after =931 in that address - that's just a period, ending my sentence.)

How can nine gates also be a pure straight?
First, let's take a look at what you're citing:

Appendix 1 (Fan 4, P. 34) Nine Gates. The five different ways of making Nine Gates (1 or 9, 2 or 8, 3 or 7, 4 or 6, 5) permit the addition of some fan but not others. The example on p.34 illustrates the case of winning Nine Gates on 1 or 9, and does explicitly permit addition of both Pure Straight and Tile Hog (either of which makes the other inevitable).

And, for the sake of fuller comprehension, let's see the definitions of Nine Gates and Pure Straight from my book:

4. Nine Gates 88 points

Tiles of one suit only, with concealed pungs of both terminals (ones and nines) and one of each simple, and (as the final winning tile) a duplicate of any tile in the hand. Prior to obtaining the final tile, the hand was concealed, waiting for any tile in the suit to win (a nine-way wait). May not be combined with Full Flush (implied), Concealed, Edge Wait, Closed Wait, Single Wait, or Pung of Terminals or Honors. If self-picked, Fully Concealed may be added.

28. Pure Straight 16 points

One through nine in one suit (three chows, end to end).

So, to answer your question, "How can nine gates also be a pure straight?" - As noted, it's only possible if the fourteenth tile is a 1 or 9. The green book shows:

Now, imagine that the "pung of ones" is a pair - and the third one makes a chow with its neighbors, 2 and 3. Then you have a 456 chow, a 789 chow, and a pung of nines. You can see that it's possible to include a pure straight in this, if the last tile is a terminal. By reminding me of this, you show me that my book's definition of Nine Gates is flawed - I mustn't require that the terminals be "concealed pungs." Instead, I must specify "three ones and three nines" in my definition, to permit the flexibility needed in order to accommodate Pure Straight. And my illustration above is wrong - I should not include space between ones and two, or between eight and nines.

Isn't the pure straight implied by nine gates?
Only if Pure Straight is inevitable when making Nine Gates. If the last taken tile is not a terminal, Pure Straight is not made.

I'm modifying the errata for my book, and I'm adding this Q&A to FAQ 22.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
トム·スローパー
湯姆斯洛珀
Creator of the weekly Mah-Jongg column and the Mah-Jongg FAQs -- donations appreciated.
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, California, USA
March 24, 2015

Nine Gates and Pure Straight, part 2

>From: Jonathan Coveney (via Twitter)
>Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 10:07 AM
>Subject: Jonathan Coveney (@jco) mentioned you on Twitter!
>Tom Sloper,
>You were mentioned in a Tweet! Tom Sloper
>@tomsloper thank you so much! FWIW I was using the updated rules and errata you linked, I just didn't realize they were no longer called+ - Mar 24
>Jonathan Coveney
>@jco
> Follow Follow
>@tomsloper "the green book." I thought the green book just meant the latest edition of the rules
> 05:07 PM - 24 Mar 15
> Reply to @jco Retweet Favorite
>@tomsloper lastly, what's your preferred medium for questions? Email it seems?
> 05:07 PM - 24 Mar 15
> Reply to @jco Retweet Favorite

>From: Jonathan Coveney
>Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:28 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>I was just wondering: what is the highest mah jong hand possible? My sense is something like quadruple concealed kong of all winds, but I'm not sure!
>Love the site :)

Hi, Jonathan. You wrote:

I thought the green book just meant the latest edition of the rules
You were not wrong. My apologies for jumping to an assumption. I have a physical copy of the green book from 2006, and since the update is available as a downloadable PDF, I wasn't thinking of the updated version as having a cover at all (much less a green one). But looking at http://www.mindmahjong.com/info/eshowinfo.asp?id=931, I see that the new PDF still sports the same green cover.

In my mind, "the green book" referred to the 2006 edition, and the revised version "ought" to be referred to as "the 2014 update." But I was wrong; I misspoke. ...I do think it's important, though, to make certain that one is referring to green books by their publish or release date, since there have certainly been changes since the 2006 printing.

I noticed on that web page that in addition to the 2014 edition of MCR there is also a link labeled "New edition is now available!" and the download has a different title. The two downloads are:
● 20140411MCREnglish.pdf
● 20141120CEJ.pdf
The first one is English-only, and is dated April 11, 2014. The second one is CEJ (Chinese, English, Japanese) and is dated November 20, 2014. So really, the most definitive edition would be the CEJ. It's downloadable by clicking the banner image atop the page where it says "New edition is now available!"

what's your preferred medium for questions? Email it seems?
I was a little surprised at getting a question via Twitter at first, but hey - any method that gets a question to me is fine. If a question comes via Twitter, then I have an excuse to post a link to my bulletin board on Twitter, so that's kind of a plus.

what is the highest mah jong hand possible? My sense is something like quadruple concealed kong of all winds, but I'm not sure!
I don't know offhand - I suppose so. I'm still recovering from a cold that kept me coughing and sleepless throughout what was supposed to be a wonderfully productive Spring Break week - I'm still groggy, and my work is still backlogged. I don't have time to try to figure this one out. One of the mahjong illuminati may have already figured this out and posted something about it on rec.games.mahjong 8 years ago or so. Or maybe Elizabeth U (who has now sent in a spectacular analysis of Nine Gates pursuant to your questions - see above) has already figured this out. You tell me how much Big Four Winds made of four concealed kongs (and a pair of dragons) would be scored. My poor brain can't deal with it right now.

May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
トム·スローパー
湯姆斯洛珀
Creator of the weekly Mah-Jongg column and the Mah-Jongg FAQs -- donations appreciated.
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, California, USA
March 24, 2015

Nine Gates and Pure Straight, part 3

>From: Elizabeth U
>Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:35 PM
>Subject: Nine gates--9 completed hands
>
>Hi Tom,
>Regarding the question about Nine Gates: I wrote out the nine possible completed hands (4 sets and one pair) for myself to see when you'd get the straight and to see how the pair, chows and pungs change depending on the 14th tile drawn. If the 14th tile is a 2,5, or 8, those numbers will form your pairs and you'll have two terminal pungs because the waiting hand holds three ones and three nines. I guess there would be some short straights in those hands too. You don't 'lock in' terminal pungs during play so you're right about changing your description of the hand in your book. Bold numbers represent the 14 tile. It looks beautiful but I've never seen anyone do it. I'm sure that math geniuses will see something mystical in this.
>Best wishes from Warsaw, Poland
>Elizabeth

Very nice, Elizabeth. I'm sure math geniuses see a lot of mysticism in a lot of places. This hand in particular has a lot of the beauty of math in it.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
トム·スローパー
湯姆斯洛珀
Creator of the weekly Mah-Jongg column and the Mah-Jongg FAQs -- donations appreciated.
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, California, USA
March 24, 2015

Can Thirteen Orphans be chitted in MCR (aka CO)?

>From: "dustyvideoinc
>Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2015 11:20 AM
>Subject: erratum to RDWW errata
>"P. 158 - Fan 43" should read "P. 152 - Fan 43" and be resequenced.
>
>From: "dustyvideoinc
>Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2015 12:15 PM
>Subject: Thirteen Orphans/Unique Wonders Hand under CO
>Under CO, can Thirteen Orphans be chitted, or rob a hidden kong?
>Perlmen & Chan 1979 p. 70 states: "This hand is considered to be the Royal Hand of the Old Style and enjoys the prerogative of robbing a hidden kong and of not being able to be chitted."
>Mahjong Wiki at http://mahjong.wikidot.com/thirteen-orphans states "A concealed kong can be robbed to form a thirteen orphans hand."
>Mahjong Wiki at http://mahjong.wikidot.com/robbing-the-kong states "Robbing a concealed kong is not allowed. In some rules (e.g. Riichi Competition Rules) robbing a concealed kong is allowable if it can complete a Thirteen Orphans hand."
>The CO rule on Thirteen Orphans Hand being chitted or robbing a hidden kong should be stated one way or the other, because of the hand's long history, and its noteworthy status under CO as one of six special hands that don't require the typical four sets and a pair (13 Orphans, 7 Pairs, 7 Shifted Pairs, Greater Honours and Knitted Tiles, Lesser Honours and Knitted Tiles, and Knitted Straight.)

Hi, Dusty.
For the benefit of other readers, to "chit" means to claim priority over another claimant for a discarded tile for a win. Normally, when two players want the same discard for mah-jongg, the player next in turn would take priority (that player is said to "chit" the other claimant). But in the case of Thirteen Orphans, in Hong Kong rules (and perhaps in other rules as well), the player with Thirteen Orphans would take priority over any other (Thirteen Orphans cannot be chitted).
Perlmen & Chan (the book you cited) describe Hong Kong rules, not Majiang Competition Rules (also called "Chinese Official" by some, myself included).
And thanks for the link to mahjong.wikidot.com. I see now that the Mahjong Wiki describes Chinese Official rules at http://mahjong.wikidot.com/rules:chinese-official-overview.
You wrote: "The CO rule on Thirteen Orphans Hand being chitted or robbing a hidden kong should be stated one way or the other."
I don't recall ever seeing that in the official rulebook (if it was in there, I would have stated it in my book as well). The World Mahjong Network recently posted the latest version of the official rules at http://www.mindmahjong.com/adobe/20140411MCREnglish.pdf. I don't see this chitting mentioned in there, but I have not yet scoured the latest release. You could check it yourself. If it's not mentioned in the rulebook, then you could assume that the Hong Kong rule does not apply.
If you go to an official tournament, you can ask the judges if that rule applies. If you are playing MCR in a home game, you can set a table rule as you see fit. You could also contact the governing body and ask them for a ruling. As I stated, in my opinion, if it's not mentioned in the rulebook, then it's not a rule in MCR.
Dusty, you also quoted the wiki in saying that in Japanese riichi competition rules, the player making Thirteen Orphans is permitted to rob a concealed kong. That move is not possible in MCR since in MCR the concealed kong is face-down (nobody but the kong's owner knows what those four tiles are).
Oh - and thanks for the correction to the erratum. I'll fix it.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
トム·スローパー
湯姆斯洛珀
Creator of the weekly Mah-Jongg column and the Mah-Jongg FAQs -- donations appreciated.
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, California, USA
May 3, 2015

3 Qs about Chinese Majiang

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 11:51:45 AM EDT, Karen W wrote:
Hello Tom,
I have 3 questions about Chinese Mahjong scoring.
1�Greater Honors & Knitted Tiles�can you claim FC if you draw the tile for Mahjong?
Your book doesn�t explicitly forbid it.
2�Does a Concealed Kong also count as a Concealed Pung? 2 points for CK + possible 2, 16, or 64 points if you have CP Hand.
3�Why is it fewer points if you have 1- Concealed Kong (2 pts) and 1-Melded Kong
(1 pt), than 2 Melded Kongs (4 pts)? Doesn�t seem logical�
Thanks as always for your wisdom. Learning the scoring for Chinese Mahjong is a process.
PS�I�m making a donation??
Thanks,
Karen
Sent from my iPhone

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Hi, Karen! Thanks for the donation. Okay, you're asking about MCR (official Majiang Competition Rules).

1. I'm guessing FC means "fully concealed." There is a principle generally accepted in several Asian variants that govern whether a hand still counts as "fully concealed" when won on a discard. The general principle in many Asian variants is that a hand can count as Concealed when won on discard, but the set (the pair, chow, pung, or kong) that the discard completes does not get scored as Concealed. HOWEVER... in Greater Honors & Knitted Sets (fan #20 in my book) there are no "sets" as such. And on page 180 I wrote that "Concealed" may not be claimed with this hand. Reason: there are no exposable sets, thus there is no way to make the hand except Concealed (concealment is "implied"). Also, see fan #56 on page 187. "Fully Concealed" can be claimed only on self-pick, never on a discard.

2. Yes, a concealed kong can be counted as a concealed pung. For example, you can claim Two Concealed Pungs if you have a concealed pung and a concealed kong. I'm sorry, but I didn't follow your example "2 points for CK + possible 2, 16, or 64 points if you have CP Hand." If my answer doesn't satisfy, give me a clearer example, without any shorthand or abbreviations.

3. Actually, if you have 1 melded and 1 concealed kong, you earn 6 points. See the chart on page 249. And see fan #57 on page 154.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Labor Day, 2023
Donations appreciated