They got upset when I stopped the Charleston
>From: Vivien S
>Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 1:14 PM
>Subject: Courtesy pass after stopping Charleston
>Hi,
>I recently stopped the Charleston after the first set. I then offered 3 tiles in the courtesy pass. The other players felt that if I had three unwanted tiles I should not have halted the passing. What is the ruling on this? Many thanks.
Hello Vivien, welcome to my website. You wrote:
The other players felt
Feelings have nothing to do with the rules! Your group needs to have a rulebook handy for when questions arise. Besides, are you really surprised that your group's hackles were raised? It's "bad enough" when somebody stops the Charleston, and then you put salt on the wound when you had 3 tiles to trade. In case you haven't noticed, mah-jongg players can get touchy sometimes.
What is the ruling on this?
You've asked something that others have asked me many times before. So to save myself having to constantly retype the answer, I have compiled all my frequently given answers into a series of articles or FAQs ( "Frequently Asked Questions"), which I ask newcomers to explore before writing to me.
You have asked Frequently Asked Question
19AG.
I also recommend you read
column 494.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
December 2, 2011
What's the one and only strategy to use in this case?
>From: "brendarainwater
>Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 11:05 AM
>Subject: Strategy play when Charleston is stopped by opponent
>Hello Tom,
>My question is whether or not it is good strategy to do a courtesy pass to the opponent player who stops the Charleston because she is only 2 or 3 tiles away from a maj jongg. Our group of players tend to avoid a courtesy pass with her because we do not want to help her in any way. Of course we also do not get any help, so we wonder if this is a good strategy or not.
Hello Ms. Rainwater,
I have two magic words for you: "it depends."
And another interesting word comes to mind. It's kind of a funny word, actually: "oxymoron." Have you ever heard the phrase "moderation in all things"? Well, that's an oxymoron, because if you use moderation in absolutely every single thing, then you're not being moderate in your use of moderation!
The point I'm trying to make is that there is no "one and only true strategy" to use when somebody stops the Charleston. Or in any other situation, either. You have to choose the strategy based on the situation at the moment.
Most of the time, you can't count on getting useful tiles on the second Charleston, or in the courtesy. You've probably heard or even said the phrase, "same junk going around."
But occasionally you DO get useful tiles then. I've even gotten a useful tile during the courtesy. Not a lot, but it has happened, and more than once.
Your problem is how to balance your desire to build your own hand with your desire to play defensively. You have to decide which you need to do more than the other. If your tiles are crap, then you might as well go defensive, and refuse to trade in the courtesy. If you have some good stuff, though, you have a chance to win -- so maybe you want to trade with her in that case. Or maybe she's just getting on your nerves, and you want to let her know your feelings even though it's cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Get the point? There is no one and only magic strategy to use every single time this happens. You have to use your brain. It's called "being strategic." Strategy isn't a set of hard and fast rules. It's gray cells.
Besides, how do you really know she's stopping it "because she is only 2 or 3 tiles away from a maj jongg" [sic]? You don't! You can't possibly know what she's holding in her hand. Maybe she's got two hands. Or maybe she's stopping the Charleston because she knows it throws everybody off their game, messes with their heads -- and she believes she won't get anything in the second Charleston anyway. Hard to tell why she does what she does. You have to play your tiles. Personally, I don't go on the defense that early in the game.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
11/13/11
FAQ 19AG, 19AH (no matter what Yelda says)
> From: Dorothy D
>Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2013 1:13 PM
> Subject: Optional pass after stopping the Charleston
> Hi,
>In a game last night, I stopped the Charleston. For the optional pass, I said "three." Another player, new to our group, adamantly informed me that you cannot stop the Charleston if you have three tiles to pass.
> I can't find this written anywhere, so as you note in the FAQ, it's probably not a rule... but she has been playing MUCH longer than I have, so I wanted to check.
>Is there any difference in the Optional pass when it occurs after the first rather than the second Charleston?
>Many thanks!
>Dorothy D
Hi, Dorothy.
Actually, this is covered in FAQ 19 -- it's FAQ 19AG and FAQ 19AH.
In the title I picked for this Q&A, I mentioned "Yelda." See column 387.
if you want to know what that's all about.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
October 2, 2013
P.S. - You should not be surprised if somebody kvetches when you stop the Charleston, then offer three in the courtesy pass!
On stopping the Charleston
>From: Louise B
>Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 4:29 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>Although I’m pretty sure it’s not an official rule, I’ve been playing with a few groups in my development who say that after the first left pass, if they have a choice of two hands (6 tiles of one hand, 7 of another, say) that they should make a decision on which hand to play and NOT stop the Charleston instead of playing it safe by keeping both hands in tact. What are your feelings on this?
>Lou
Hi, Lou!
I'm not sure what you're questioning. Rules are one thing, and strategy is another.
Are you asking if it's an official rule that the Charleston must never be stopped if one has two hands?
Are you asking if it's an official rule that the Charleston must never be stopped if one has two hands that are nearly equal?
Are you asking if it's an official rule that if a player has two hands after the first left, that she must choose one (and not stop the Charleston) if she can't keep both options open?
It isn't.
It isn't.
It isn't.
Rules are one thing, and strategy is another. Any player is permitted to stop the dancing after the first Charleston (after the first left pass). That's the rule. I assume you know that. The player's decision whether or not to stop the Charleston is a matter of strategy, not rules. Your reason for stopping the Charleston cannot be governed by rules anyway - there's no way the other players could know why you're stopping it unless you tell them. If one's reason for stopping the Charleston was a matter of rules, it would be an unenforceable rule, since there's no way for players to know what's going on in each other's heads.
All of which makes me wonder how you know that all these groups have these [rules?strategies?] in place. You aren't talking through your thought process while passing tiles in the Charleston, are you? "Hmm, should I stop the Charleston or not? Counting... okay, six tiles for that hand..." (and so on). Or do you say you want to stop the Charleston, and then they ask you why? I mean, if you're just quietly doing the Charleston, how are people even bringing up their "strategy rules" about stopping the Charleston?
I can think of two reasons for "don't stop the Charleston" table rules: (1) to keep the game moving along quickly (because somebody takes too much time, slowing the Charleston down), and (2) the group has experienced somebody stopping the dance too often for their liking. Is either of those things happening?
For more of my "feelings" about stopping the Charleston, see column 494.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
December 28, 2017
They constantly stop the Charleston
>From: Timothy A
>Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 5:10 AM
>Subject: Charleston Question
>Hi Tom, One of the groups I play with has two players that are constantly stopping the Charleston after the first left. yes, I know it’s perfectly legal to do that but, being the 5th player a couple of us have noticed that in most of these cases they have perhaps 3 groups of 4 tiles for hands or not even that when they stop it. They just don’t know which tiles to keep or pass so decide to stop it.
>One comment made the last time we played by one of these players is that she thinks she wins more games when she stops the Charleston, however others playing that day knew she stopped it 5 times and won none of those games but did win 3 others where she didn’t stop it.
>Do you have any statistics that would indicate whether stopping the Charleston or not increases or decreases their win potential.
>Of course I do know that there are times when you’ve got a ‘made’ hand and need to stop it as I’ve done that myself a few times but for these two players, that’s not the case.
>Tim
Hi, Tim! You wrote:
being the 5th player a couple of us have noticed that in most of these cases they have perhaps 3 groups of 4 tiles for hands or not even that when they stop it. They just don’t know which tiles to keep or pass so decide to stop it.
That's useful strategic information!
others playing that day knew she stopped it 5 times and won none of those games but did win 3 others where she didn’t stop it.
Again: useful information for when you play against her. This is a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect; she thinks her strategy is great, even when it's not.
Do you have any statistics
See FAQ 19-ci.
that would indicate whether stopping the Charleston or not increases or decreases their win potential.
I can only speak from my own observations: the majority of the time, the tiles that go around in the 2nd Charleston (after the first left) usually prompt group moans about "same old stuff going around." Yes, once in a while one obtains useful tiles in the 2nd Charleston, but one really can't expect miracles. If you want to convince your party pooper of the error of her ways, collect solid data so you can derive the desired statistics yourself. You say your group has made some observations, but that data is unsupported by detailed facts, nor by a sufficiently large sample. What I'm saying is, record times and dates, and when you've collected a sufficiently large number of game outcomes, you can present your data to her. It probably won't make her like you more, but it could possibly convince her that her philosophy doesn't have a basis in the statistics you gathered.
Just a thought. May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
July 1, 2018
Charleston-stopping strategy
>From: Rebecca E
>Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2019 10:56 AM
>Subject: Question about stopping the passing
>I have 10 tiles to complete a hand, and do not stop the passing because I still have 3 tiles to pass. But on the first pass in the second round of the Charleston, I am passed the 11th tile I need. Now I only have 2 to pass, but I can't stop the passing and I can't steal/blind pass. Is my only choice to pass a tile that I actually need?
>Should I actually have stopped the Charleston?
>Thanks for your advice.
>Rebecca E
Hi, Rebecca!
I have written on stopping the Charleston. See column 494. In column 494, you'll see the phrase "the evil second across." That's what got you. You had exactly three tiles to pass, but in the second left, you got a wanted tile. That's the risk you take when you have this precise situation (it happens, but infrequently). When I've been in that position, I have either stopped the Charleston or risked having a tile coming in - depending on the way I feel about my luck at that time. I can't tell you A or B. All I can tell you is "that's the risk you have to take." So I might risk it if I thought having to pass one of them might not be so bad.
A few times, a needed tile has come in when I have an evil second across quandary. Want to know what I've done? I don't break up any pairs. If I have a pung already, I'll pass one of those. Sometimes, the player who wound up with that tile threw it out, and then I was able to call for it and get it back. It was like not losing that tile in the first place (except now I have to give information about my hand).
Hope this was helpful!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
January 20, 2019 3:20 PM
Consec #6, soft speech claims, and stopping the Charleston
On Friday, January 17, 2020, 04:32:56 PM PST, Lynn P wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is: Hi Tom, I enjoy all your posts and Q&A as I have been for past 10-15 years. Here is one for you: We play American Mah Jongg every Friday and I was playing Devil’s Advocate today at our weekly Mah Jongg group and questioned last hand in Consecutive run. I posed the question: “Can the pair be in any other place except the second place? So can my hand be 111 222 33 in one suit and then followed by 333 333 in 2 other suits or 11 222 333 with 111 111 in 2 other suits.” Since ladies disagreed I said I would ask Tom. I usually don’t play concealed hands so had never questioned this before. I have 3 consecutive numbers, with 2 pungs matching pair in each case. Also have another question: If someone speaks softly and says she wants a discard but person across from her has already picked and discarded is that softly speaking person allowed to take discard and other person required to pick up her discarded tile and put it back in the wall for next person in line to take? I have tried to limit unnecessary chatter while game is progressing but sometimes someone just has something so important she can’t wait until end of game to say it. I was questioned today why I often stop the Charleston and I told them, “Because I can!” Is this a good enough answer or do I have to answer at all? BTW I play with 8 ladies ages from 93-72 years old and I am one of the youngest. Thanks for all your help and I am still checking info in your book, “The Red Dragon & The West Wind”. It is the best thing I bought regarding Mah Jongg. Many thanks, Lynn P in Inverness, FL
Hi, Lynn, long time no see! You wrote:
last hand in Consecutive run. I posed the question: “Can the pair be in any other place except the second place? ... Since ladies disagreed I said I would ask Tom.
If anyone had an iPad at the game, you could have looked up the answer instantly by looking at FAQ 16, or, even more definitively, the NMJL's FAQs page. Go ahead, take a look at those now. Bookmarking them is a good idea.
If someone speaks softly and says she wants a discard but person across from her has already picked and discarded is that softly speaking person allowed to take discard and other person required to pick up her discarded tile and put it back in the wall for next person in line to take?
You know the rule, right? A claim for a discard, if spoken before the window of opportunity is closed, must be honored. The rule is silent on the question of soft speech that's inaudible, but a reasonable person would understand that the spoken claim must be reasonably audible. And it must occur within the window of opportunity.
I was questioned today why I often stop the Charleston and I told them, “Because I can!” Is this a good enough answer or do I have to answer at all?
It's polite to answer, so I'm not going to say you don't have to reply to a spoken question. The applicable FAQ is FAQ 19-AG. What I say if somebody asks me why I am stopping the Charleston is, "because the rules permit it." I don't explain what's going on with my tiles.
But if people are complaining that you stop the Charleston often, maybe you actually do it too much. I wrote column 494 about stopping the Charleston. Stopping the dance is your right (it's everyone's right), but you have to know that others will get mad if you do it often. I frequently get emails from players complaining about a player who stops the Charleston frequently, and asking what they can do about it.
Another thought - if you're playing with people who haven't played as long as you have, they may be hoping for some strategy advice from you. If that's what they're doing, why not share some of your thoughts, thus helping them up their game, which will challenge you to up your own game anew.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
January 17, 2020
They constantly stop the Charleston
On Wednesday, July 1, 2020, 01:40:21 PM PDT, Beverly K wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is: Two players in my MahJongg group stop the Charleston very often, primarily because they have 2 hands and can not decide. There is MJ etiquette similar to golf etiquette, tennis etiquette, etc. This eliminates at least 9 passes, plus courtesy pass and somewhat penalizes the other three players. How can we tactfully try to stop this from happening about half the time when we play? Thank you.. rbk
Hi, Beverly! You wrote:
Two players in my MahJongg group stop the Charleston very often,
A lot of people have asked me how to deal with this. I've written a LOT about it, and I'm feeling kind of lazy today so I'm pointing you to what I've written previously, before I delve into everything you said in detail. I answered this question ("They constantly stop the Charleston") at
https://sloperama.com/majexchange/bulletinbd-archive43.htm#stopping. I recommend you click that link and see how I answered Timothy A when he asked your question.
(Or just scroll up to see it here in FAQ 28.)
You also wrote:
primarily because they have 2 hands and can not decide.
And you know this how? Do they volunteer that information? (Volunteering information is poor strategy on their part.)
There is MJ etiquette similar to golf etiquette, tennis etiquette, etc.
Yes... and? You didn't take that thought all the way to the point you're trying to make. Because in my view, etiquette applies not only to the Charleston-stopper but also to the others at the table. They have a right under the rules to stop the Charleston. Yes, it's irritating to others, and I agree it can be a bad habit, but it can be bad manners to tell them you're irritated.
That said, you can always boot them from your game, or quit that game and go find players who share your views. Oops, did I go too far just now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ My point is, people have annoying habits, and we cannot change their annoying habits. We either accept those people, annoyances and all, or we hang out with different people instead.
(Not that many of us are hanging out with people these days...)
This eliminates at least 9 passes, plus courtesy pass and somewhat penalizes the other three players
There's room for debate here. So I'm debating it:
1. Nine passes? I don't think so. Each player passes left, then across, then right. That's three passes (for four players). I think you wanted the number to be higher than three so it sounded worse than it really is. Might you be an accountant? (^_^) Sorry, maybe I went too far again. 囧
2. Courtesy pass? No! The courtesy pass can still happen. Even the stopper can pass as many as three tiles across.
3. "Penalizes"? When most of the time, nothing new is gained in the second Charleston? I mean, it has happened that something new happens in the second dance, but most of the time, nothing. The most frequently heard kvetch in the Second Charleston is: "same old stuff going around." Am I wrong?
How can we tactfully try to stop this from happening about half the time when we play?
I don't think there's anything you can say that would be 50% effective. ... Or maybe anything you say to them would be effective half the time! (~_^)
You can tell your Charleston-stoppers your personal Charleston strategy (what you do when you have two equal hands you can't decide between). Maybe they'll see a benefit to your strategy if you share it. And you can point your Charleston-stoppers to column 729 (where I wrote about my strategy of stopping the Charleston - or not stopping it).
I recommend you all read FAQ 9 (about etiquette in mah-jongg),
and column 494 (about the dangers of stopping the Charleston).
As soon as I'm feeling less lazy, I'll collect all those into an FAQ or a column. And before I stop, I have to say, I hope you and your group are playing safely and do not get the COVID-19 virus.
Stay safe and healthy. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
July 1, 2020
They constantly stop the Charleston (a followup)
A followup on what I wrote to Beverly K.
I have gotten this question numerous times - somebody stops the Charleston frequently - for whatever reason, who cares what the reason is, it's so annoying that he or she or they stop the Charleston all the time! Yadda yadda yadda.
If I sound unsympathetic, it's because I am. A student of human nature would get a chuckle out of the Charleston-stopper's reasoning, and does he or she even realize how ticked off it makes some opponents? That student of human nature would also get a chuckle out of the complainer. Does he or she really think the second Charleston will produce a miraculous hand? The clash of [the unable-to-change] meeting head-on with [the believer in second Charleston miracles] is a human-studier's delight!
I acknowledge that it can produce irritation when someone stops the second Charleston, but the stopper's right to do that should be respected. His/her right to stop the Charleston goes hand-in-hand with your right to do so.
Is it a question of bad strategy? Yes. But you can take strategic advantage of her bad strategy.
Is it a question of poor etiquette to do it a lot? That's arguable. If you know it tweaks the others' hackles, and you do it to tweak them royally, then that's not very nice, but if you do it a lot because that's the way you play, well, that's the way you play.
When I tell complainers that they can't force another person to change and they can just stop playing with that other person, I get blowback. "Oh we couldn't kick her out, we like her! Shame on you for even suggesting it!" Okay, then! She is who she is, you like who she is except for this one thing. That's that!
I guess my point of this followup is: I don't think frequently stopping the Charleston is that big a deal. Roll with the flow, adapt to the personalities you're playing with. Can't we all just get along?
Stay safe and healthy. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
July 2, 2020
They constantly stop the Charleston, part 3
On Thursday, July 2, 2020, 10:13:17 AM PDT, Pete S wrote:
stopping the charleston revisited
Hi Tom,
I got a chuckle out of your response yesterday to Beverly K because you
started off saying you were too lazy today to explain it all again and
then wrote, like, a whole page answering her questions. Today I see you
wrote some more but I think you could add one more suggestion for people
who don't like stopping the Charleston; play a version of Mahjong that
doesn't use the Charleston at all. They could even continue to play NMJL
style, just drop the whole passing tiles bit and play what you're dealt.
I'm sure I've read it somewhere, maybe even your book, but was the
Charleston "invented" to prolong game play? Or because someone was
dissatisfied with their hand as it was dealt?
-Pete-
The words we speak are like froth on the water, actions are like drops of gold. -Tibetian Proverb-
Hi, Pete!
Chuckling is good! We humans are so amusing. We crack me up sometimes.
The 3-player rules skip the Charleston, but people (we amusing humans) almost universally insist that a Charleston be had anyway. I've played 3-player without a Charleston, and it's fine.
(I can hear Penny (from Big Bang Theory) now: "Fine? You said it was fine?" To which Leonard replies, "Yeah, it's a perfectly good word. You put it in front of wine or dining, and you've really got something." Ahem.)
The 3-player game with no Charleston is fine. Players get a lot more picks from the wall, and it balances out. I've played numerous variants that don't have a Charleston, and those were fine too. But I never tried 4-player NMJL without a Charleston. My theory is that the limitation imposed by the card (with its mere fifty-something hands) necessitates a Charleston, when there are 4 players. When we're limited to only the short list of hands on the card, the Charleston helps shape the hand before getting into the pick-and-discard phase. It was surely not designed to prolong play. No feature of mah-jongg was designed to prolong play. Nobody wants it prolonged! Just the opposite. Everybody wants to play fastfastfastfast!!! That's why I get so many complaints about slow players (not only Charleston stoppers).
Maybe it's superstition. I've noticed that there's a lot of superstition involved in mah-jongg. "We didn't shuffle the tiles enough." "If four Wests are discarded in a row, it means somebody will die." "If someone stops the Charleston, someone is going to die!"
So much intense emotion! Hmm, wait, what is this I'm feeling right now, in fact... [Sigh.]
Stay safe and healthy. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
July 2, 2020
They constantly stop the Charleston, part 4
Dear Readers,
Wow, I got quite carried away there. Maybe too far. It inspired me to write FAQ 28 on "She stops the Charleston too much!" I wrote it in "dark mode" - let me know what you think.
Tom
They constantly stop the Charleston, part 5
On Saturday, July 4, 2020, 01:56:20 AM PDT, heaton.ray wrote:
The dark side...
Hi Tom,
I quite like the dark mode used in Faq 28 (or is it Faq 27, small typo methinks, see image attached!)
But I wondered why, if indeed generally it's the "...same old stuff going around...", then why are folks so irritated when an opponent shouts up and stops the dance? I dont think I've ever stopped the Charleston, but have frequently wished I had. And when an opponent has done so, rarely has it impacted my hand too much.
Admittedly I've not played NMJL rules that much, a few hundred times at most I guess, so my opinion may not be worth too much! But I think it better to reverse the argument and ask "why continue the dance"? For example, a good reason may be if you have at least three tiles to pass then not much will be lost by continuing; if less than three, then apologise to Larry and stop dancing!
Stay well, Tom!
Ray
Hi, Ray! Glad you like the dark mode, and thanks for the QA check (I fixed the typo).
What you're suggesting (flipping the between-dances paradigm on its head) might help.
Folks assume there will be a second dance, unless somebody stops it.
But what if folks instead assume there'll be just one dance, unless somebody requests a second one (and all go along).
Thing is, over time that would most likely just revert to everybody assuming there'll be a second dance unless somebody says no.
When I'm teaching new players about the second left pass, they tend to stop and look at one another until somebody says, "go a second time?" In the past I've told them "you don't need to ask." Maybe I should change that!
I have lots of time to consider the idea. I won't be teaching mah-jongg again until I've had the Covid vaccine. And we still don't know when that's coming.
Stay safe and healthy. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs -- donations appreciated.
July 4, 2020
Los Angeles, California, USA
Stopping the Charleston
On Monday, July 6, 2020, 06:48:41 AM PDT, lindaz wrote:
stopping the Charleston (PT 6?)
Hi Tom,
You asked for our opinions so I'm sharing my thoughts on stopping the dance. I like the full dance because it allows me to form a hand which I may nor have considered. I.know that I may get new tiles which open new opportunities. i cringe when I see a new player trying to anguish over the first deal. It slows the game, frustrates the players, and embarrasses the slow player who is unable to make a decision..( I sometimes forfeit my position at the table to offer assistance in indicating which tiles to keep and discard.if the player wants my help.)
I only stop the Charleston when I have 2 equally viable options. I often continue when I see a lot of winds, dragons, etc being passed during the first round that will work with my second hand selection.
Hope this makes sense--Thanks for all you do and I wish you good health!
Be well, Linda
Hi, Linda!
Glad to hear you're keeping well. Your story puts another light on things. I agree that new players try the patience of experienced players. That's an old story (all the way back to the Roaring Twenties, a century ago). It's why my advice to new players is "don't try to win, just try to keep up." (That advice has gotten some blowback from newish players who tell me I'm insulting them.)
Your Charleston stopping strategy is perfectly sound. Strategies are not enforceable on others. My impatience is with players who get impatient in a not-nice way. That's nice that you offer to drop your game to help newbs out. I'm betting that some players have declined your offer. Teaching and playing are two different things, and each has its season (remember that old sixties song, "Turn, Turn, Turn"? To everything there is a season... ♪♫
It's an old story - new players want to play with seasoned players, who often don't want to play with them. There is friction where the rubber (the newbies) meets the road (the oldies).
Wow, I just mixed a bunch of metaphors together there...!
P.S. Not all frequent Charleston stoppers are novices. And of course you like the full dance. But getting all bent out of shape when it's truncated is not the way to go.
Stay safe and healthy. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs -- donations appreciated.
July 6, 2020
Los Angeles, California, USA
Stopping the Charleston problem
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020, 01:23:28 PM PST, storycookfav wrote:
the Charleston
Mr Sloper,
I have written before and always appreciate your help. And I, like so many others enjoyed your strategy column. I am sorry to hear that you are suffering from motivational difficulties exacerbated by the COVID. I was getting a little depressed myself but my group of 4 is back playing and it is what I look forward to the most.
You said you would like more examples to discuss. I also play online and have been taking screen shots of some situations I would LOVE help with. Here is the first one.
This is first left. I was dealt the 2 jokers, 1 flower, 2 9D, a 3D, 6D and soap. The rest was junk. After the 2 passes this is what I had. So I was torn between 368 #5, Consecutive Run #3 or #6.
I stopped the Charleston.
Can you tell me what you would have done with this hand and why.
Hope this inspires you. If so, I have quite a few screen shots I can share.
thank you
Story
Hi, Story! This is fun!
First off, I don't like pre-assigning jokers, so I would arrange the tiles this way:
and then I'd look at my four steps: I count five pairs, but no hand on the card can use all five. I find a hand that uses four of them: 369 #5. It needs a pair and three kongs, and I even have two jokers. Perfect. I rearrange my tiles.
I have four passables; a no-brainer. This is a powerful beginning to the game, with high odds of success. I pass a face-down pyramid to my left and say, "second left." (I don't stop the Charleston.)
You mentioned Consec #3 (the most powerful hand on the card), but that must be a typo. Consec #3 has no flowers and needs two suits. If you meant Consec #2, that's not an improvement over the 369 hand. You mentioned Consec #6.
That uses only three of my pairs, and I'm not leveraged as well as I am for the 369 hand. I need another 7D to make a pair, making a disadvantage for this choice.
The first choice, the 369 hand, is the way to go. I don't stop the Charleston to preserve lesser choices.
See the lower-left diamond. The hands should be equal.
Thanks, Story.
Play safely and stay healthy. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs -- donations appreciated.
November 10, 2020
Los Angeles, California, USA
This group never plays the second Charleston
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 07:03:37 PM EST, Gail R wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Sent from Mail for Windows
I played with a new group who claim the second round of Charleston is optional and they do not ever play the second round. When I looked at the card it does say Second Charleston (optional) but every other game I’ve played in only stops if one person does NOT want to continue the second Charleston They do play a courtesy pass after one Charleston.
HELP!
Hi, Gail!
It sounds like your theory is that this group misunderstands what "optional" means. But for all I know, maybe they've all come to feel that nothing new goes around in the second Charleston and so they have all agreed to just skip it.
The rule is that any one person can stop after the first Charleston. There is no rule that says that if three people don't want a second Charleston and one does want it, that that one can have her way. Your experience with other groups is the norm.
It's funny; most of the stopping-the-Charleston complaints I get is from players who complain that one of their players stops the dancing too frequently. See
FAQ 28. I always try to calm those complaints by pointing out that "nothing new goes around in the second dance anyway." That's not 100% true, of course; I have gotten good tiles in the second Charleston, on occasion.
In most groups, players cry foul if anybody stops the dance, so I made this diagram:
But that's the opposite of your problem, so don't look at that.
Let's give this a try: next time, if you really want to go around again, you can poll the others: "I'd really like to go the second round. Does anybody else want to?" If there is even one person who says "no," then there is no second Charleston. It takes only one person to cause a stop.
Look at it like this is a broadening experience for you. Lots of people play lots of ways, and when you're in Rome, you have to do as the Romans do.
I'm adding this to FAQ 28.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
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Friday, January 27, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA