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Rebuttal to arguments for the CC Theory

(Rebuttal written by opponent of the CC Theory)

From: "Cofa Tsui" <cofatsui@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.mahjong (viewable via http://groups.google.com)
Subject: Re: Looking for cheap MahJong Set
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:15:31 GMT

"Tom Sloper" <tomster@sloperamaNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:tjtLb.4574$8H.19257@attbi_s03...

    > From: "Cofa Tsui" <cofatsui@hotmail.com>
      >>I am not sure if what I refer to as mahjong is the same
      >>as what you refer to as mah-jongg.
      >>I understand you have set a definition for mahjong, but I am afraid this is
      >>different if the origin of mahjong is to be referred.
    > It would be enlightening to see what your definition of mahjong would be,
    > and to see how many would agree with your definition.
I don't have a definite definition of mahjong in mind. But before I
continue, I'd introduce what Mo He Pai seems to look like (as introduced in
http://www.mjclub.com/Resource/History/ - look for the paragraph led by the
5th tiny orange square on the page):

[MO HE PAI]

Mo He Pai is a card game using the paper cards to play with. It has the
following characteristics:
It is played by 4 players;
It has 60 cards carrying the following patterns:
- Wen Qian [money note] titled 1 through 9 with 2 cards each;
- Suo Zi [string] titled 1 through 9 with 2 cards each;
- Wan Guan [10-thousand-coin] titled 1 through 9 with 2 cards each;
- "Heads" in 3 colours or patterns (similar to mahjong's Red, Green and
White), 2 cards each.

To start a game, each player gets 10 cards, then and in turn, each player
draws and discards a card. Cards are to be formed in 3 consecutive numbers
as a "set". Whoever forms 3 sets and a pair in a hand may declare HE
[pronunciation is in Chinese Pinyin, means win].

The game is then further evolved to PENG HE PAI, as follows:
Similar to Mo He Pai, but with the following changes:
- the number of cards is doubled (now 120 cards);
- the "set" can now be in the forms of KAN (3 consecutive numbers), PENG (3
identical pieces) and GANG (4 identical pieces).

And now let's have a look of Tom's definition of mahjong - refer to
http://www.sloperama.com/cctheory/cctheory.htm (on the page, click on
"Definition").

Among Tom's four primary characteristics,
"a" - It meets that of Mo He Pai. (Excepting the tile pieces.)
"b" - Tom's definition is "too modern", it can't be the origin! (And those
jokers in the definition are really jokers!)
"c" - Too modern to be origin.
"d" - It meets that of Mo He Pai. (Excepting the 4 or 5 groups requirement.)

I don't intend to give a definition to (the origin of) mahjong - More
qualified researchers or scholars are in a better position to do the job. I
however would suggest a definition of origin of mahjong to be something in
between Mo He Pai and Tom's definition, with proper modifications to items
"b" and "c" of course.

And one should not ignore, that even a definition is set, it is always
subject to change if historical evidences or facts are found which make the
change necessary.

Also, "how many would agree with [my] definition" is really not bothering
me. I am just pointing out the facts. Although in my own opinion, Mo He Pai
itself is qualified as the origin of mahjong. All mahjong variants started
evolving and developing from it.

[...]
    > In your previous post, you had stated:
      >>>those of Chinese origin or those who read Chinese
      >>>tend to believe mahjong is much older than "[a] hundred years" or "a little
      >>>over a hundred years", as many descriptions about the game can be found in
      >>>ancient Chinese literature (in addition to those English books about
      >>>mahjong).
    > I met with some mah-jongg authors in China last month. They must be
    > exceptions to your statement above, since they believe that mah-jongg
    > originated in the mid-1800s, created primarily by Chen Yumen.
    >
    > I enjoyed a meal and drinks with Sun Cang, the General Manager of the
    > network of China Competition Mahjong, and Mr. Shengqi. Mr. Shengqi has been
    > researching mah-jongg for over 40 years, was involved in compiling the
    > current Chinese Official rules, and has written several monographs: Mahjong
    > Bian, Mahjong Xue, Mahjong Movement, Fang Chang Bai He, Mahjong Study,
    > Mahjong and ZheXue, Mahjong and BingFa, Mahjong and Meixue, Mahjong and
    > XiLiXue, Mahjong and YiJing, Mahjong PaiPu Jiaocheng, Mahjong and RenCai
    > Xue, and Mahjong and Guanli Xue. Perhaps a Chinese reader would be able to
    > locate, obtain, and read some of these - but most of them, I suspect, don't
    > go into history in great detail.
    >
    > These gentlemen do not agree with you that mahjong existed before Chen
    > Yumen's work. I didn't have a chance to converse with Yu Guangyuan, who
    > served as Honorary President at the tournament. So I don't know his views on
    > the subject of the game's origins (or how "mahjong" should be defined).
Are you then satified with the presentation that Chen Yumen had invented
mahjong? Anyway, what you have said meets exactly with what I have stated on
my website ( http://www.imahjong.com/g1mru.html):

1. If you could define the term ORIGIN OF MAHJONG, a date of its birth
should be easily determined;
2. If you could not define ORIGIN OF MAHJONG, its origin is still at lost in
the history!

However, one should also note, that as of today, "Chen Yumen had invented
mahjong" is still only a possibility, it is yet to be verified.

Cofa
www.iMahjong.com

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Rebuttal to arguments against the CC Theory

(Rebuttal written by proponents of the CC Theory)